Is it a bug? Communion slave lost action if their unit id is higher than the master

zzcat · #1 August 23rd, 2008, 02:27 AM

Should a magicuser remain their action after they became communion slave? I found the unit id actually determined if the slave can act in the battle. If the slave act before the master(the slave have a lower unit id), he can act normally before his master take action. But if he/she has a higher unit id and act after the master, he can never take any action as long as the master is casting spells. Is it wanted or a bug?

As an example. please find the attachment for battle report. In the map gurus(the slave) is created before celestial masters(the master), so all of them spam stellar cascades happily. But if you modify the map to create them after the celestial masters, they will never move a finger in the battlefield...

Edi · #2 August 23rd, 2008, 03:14 AM

That's exactly as it should be. Originally a communion slave was not supposed to have any actions after casting the slave spell, no matter what. Slaves acting as long as they had a lower id than the master was a bug, but it was decided to leave it in as a feature to enable reverse communions and to allow for a larger number of strategies built around them,

zzcat · #3 August 23rd, 2008, 03:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Edi

That's exactly as it should be. Originally a communion slave was not supposed to have any actions after casting the slave spell, no matter what. Slaves acting as long as they had a lower id than the master was a bug, but it was decided to leave it in as a feature to enable reverse communions and to allow for a larger number of strategies built around them,

Got it. Thanks.

Then why not make all slaves act normally? making unit's action depend on their id looks weird.

JimMorrison · #4 August 23rd, 2008, 09:12 AM

Understandably, it would make more sense if you could decide for yourself, rather than having it arbitrarily handled on a per unit basis.

But perhaps, that ambiguity is why it wasn't seen as a big problem, communions might be a bit overly powerful if you could so easily pick and choose how you make it affect your units.

Kristoffer O · #5 August 24th, 2008, 03:13 AM

It is not entirely intentional. We might fix it at a later date, but since a whole bunch of strategies have evolved around the matter I consider it an interesting, although weird feature that is not too high on our fix list.

Sombre · #6 August 25th, 2008, 06:58 AM

I'd love it 'fixed' personally. Slaves not being able to cast at all regardless of order.

To simulate the other effect, you could let masters commune with each other without having any slaves there, or have another spell like "communion/sabbath member/caster" which allows them to share in the communion and cast.

Meglobob · #7 August 25th, 2008, 07:10 AM

I love the way it operates now.

However, if you wanted to change it so the slaves can cast even if they are after the master, that would be good.

Its not overpowered in any way and has the BIG drawback that if you get it wrong, you end up losing all the mages. I have seen 30+ mages die loads of times.

There are loads of counters to communions like earthquake, rain of stones and any other entire battlefield damaging spells. Also, assasination, disease demons, seeking arrows etc... also upset communions. So communions are not really that powerful.

Tifone · #8 August 25th, 2008, 07:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sombre

I'd love it 'fixed' personally. Slaves not being able to cast at all regardless of order.

+1, even if I understand perfectly why it isn't a "feature" so much in need of a priority fixing. ^_^

Kristoffer O · #9 August 25th, 2008, 11:40 AM

> However, if you wanted to change it so the slaves can cast even if they are after the master, that would be good.

A fix would make slaves unable to cast spells, but not unable to act. A master buffing slave thugs brought into the communion with matrixes is intended, but the slaves casting spells for themselves is not. The masters are supposed to do the casting instead of the slaves.

Kristoffer O · #10 August 25th, 2008, 11:40 AM

> However, if you wanted to change it so the slaves can cast even if they are after the master, that would be good.

A fix would make slaves unable to cast spells, but not unable to act. A master buffing slave thugs brought into the communion with matrixes is intended, but the slaves casting spells for themselves is not. The masters are supposed to do the casting instead of the slaves.

Edit: this is not a matter of balance, as much as a matter of thematics. Give up something to get something.