Thug and SC Statistics

[das123]

If you had to quantify what statistics/buffs for a Thug and also for a Super Combatant are minimum, average, maximum, and also a rating out of 5 for the importance of the statistic, what would they be? With buffs and items put in brackets the importance, once again, out of 5. The statistics are AFTER buff and items have been applied.

I know that there are many many options available and that each race has its own strategies, but I'm just looking for a basic target range. I'm interested because I have no real feel for the differences and it would help me to work out what sort of buffs and items I need to focus on. Also it will be interesting to see the different approaches people have.

Here's an example...
Code:

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THUG

              MIN   AVG   MAX   IMPORTANCE

Hit Points    15    25    40    4

Protection    12    16    22    5

Defence       10    14    20    4

Magic Resist  14    18    21    5

Strength      10    16    20    4

Attack        14    18    21    4

Precision     8     11    15    1

Morale        13    18    50    2

Encumbrance   0     4     7     3

Fatigue       0     0     4     3

Move (Battle) 8     12    50    1



Buffs/Items   EoF Weapon (3), Luck (3), Poison Resist (1)

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[Omnirizon]

I like this thread and am interested in hearing what people have to say, as I have always been a bit unsure on the bright line between thugs and SCs.

Your current outline for thugs looks pretty good. I think prot maybe a bit higher on average though. Also, I'd rate Luck as a 4, and fortunately (pun intended) it is very easy to acquire.

A good shield is a must for thugs too, Vine Shield is pretty standard, probably a 4 also.

moral is probably a 3, rather than a 2; but that's just me.

I want to do more on this later, but gotta go right now.

-Omni

[Zenzei]

I'd say encumberance/fatigue is definitely 5 in importance, without managing it one's thugs/SCs can't really even fight.

[sum1lost]

I would say that defence is far less important for SCs than for Thugs.

[Tifone]

The idea of this thread is good, the scheme is valid (with the little exception of Fatigue which is definitively a 5) for the many thugs going to support an army, or taking indie/enemy provinces with little defence.

As I have usually seen it, "thugs" are commanders equipped (with an eye to convenience) for some specific task.

So i.e. i consider thugs even the indie mages with N and A random picks which I can give eye of aiming and boots of quickness and a Ethereal Xbow/Black Bow of Botulf, Thunder Bow and so, and send to support an army. How should I consider them, SCs? For them the precision is important, as I want it boosted by Eagle Eyes and Aim before he/she starts shooting.

[JimMorrison]

I think generally Thug/SC tend to be concerned specifically with melee. The sniper/artillery builds seem to be less universally useful. Like in your example, since they're indie mages, you can't count on ever having them. Also, you probably won't give them any gear but the ranged item and a couple specific boosters (eye/boots), but much less gems invested than most melee units would expect.

I'm a little confused by the chart though, so not sure what else to add.

[Herode]

sum1lost said:
I would say that defence is far less important for SCs than for Thugs.

Why ?

[Hadrian_II]

das123 said:
If you had to quantify what statistics/buffs for a Thug and also for a Super Combatant are minimum, average, maximum, and also a rating out of 5 for the importance of the statistic, what would they be? With buffs and items put in brackets the importance, once again, out of 5. The statistics are AFTER buff and items have been applied.

Code:

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SC

              MIN   AVG   MAX   IMPORTANCE

Hit Points    30    60    400   5

If you dont have much HP, you need really good protection

Protection    12    20    30    5

With low protection, you need mistform, without a prot of at least 20, so that swarming enemys dont hurt you too much.

Defence       10    14    20    1

Who cares for defence, you will be swarmed anyway

Magic Resist  18    22    30    5

Only use MR 18 agains non astral nations, the more the better

Strength      10    16    20    2

More strength more damage, but as must damage will come from AoE, it is not really important

Attack        14    18    21    2

Aoe hits always, and most SC chassis and weapons have high bonuses, so attack is not really an issue

Precision     8     11    15    1

SCs are not supposed to wield bows

Morale        13    18    50    3

Dont use low morale scs that dont fly so you dont suffer emberassing deaths

Encumbrance   0     0     2     5

SCs need fatigue 0, so encumbrance kills

Fatigue       0     0     0     5

there is no different option than 0

Move (Battle) 8     12    50    3

if it moves faster, it engages faster but wathever.



Buffs/Items

AoE Weapon (or lots of attacks)

High Protection

Poison Resistance

Fire Resistance

Cold Resistance

Shock Resistance

High MR

Luck

Body Ethereal

Mistform

Mirror Image

Soul Vortex

Regeneration

Reinvigoration

Quickness

Fire Shield

Astral Shield

Phoenix Pyre

Breath of Winter

Heat and Cold auras

and many more

---

[Zeldor]

Hadrian_II:

I think SCs should have at least 40-50HP. With your ranking it would make Harbinger and SC and he certainly isn't one.

And it all misses the most important thing - magic skills to buff himself.

[thejeff]

Just to clarify/nitpick: SCs need some way to keep their fatigue from growing. That can be 0 encumbrance, it can be more reinvig than their encumbrance, it can be a life drain effect.

The buffs/items depend greatly on what your enemy is like and what your task is. For killing large numbers of chaff, AoE is nice, but what's really important is some kind of damage shield - Chill/heat aura, Fire Shield, soul Vortex, even Fear to rout them. And make sure your expected targets are vulnerable. Eg. undead are usually immune to Fear/Cold/life drain.

If he's an SC killer on the other hand, forget the area effect and go for multiple damage attacks. And all the buffs that help against chaff are wasted.