Sons of Kaleva, a Kalevala mod

[Endoperez]

This thread is ancient and hasn't aged well. Because of this, I made a new thread for release (version 0.85 and on).

New thread here


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I'm making a mod based on the Finnish epic, Kalevala, and on Finnish mythology in general. At the moment, it's a mismatch of bear tribals, random ideas and heap of national spells. Suggestions are welcome.

Mages everywhere:
Witch: N1E1 / 100 gp, sacred
Wiseman: N1 ?100%WEDN / 120 gp, sacred Holy 1

mages cap only:
Spellsinger: N2E1 ?210%WEDN / 240 gp
Bear Tribe Shaman: N2 ?10%E / 110gp, sacred stealthy



units everywhere:
Bear Tribe Warriors (l.inf. with spear/javelin or hatchet)
Huskarl (med.inf. with spear/javelin, shield or axe/javelin, shield)
Woodsman (l. archer with dagger/shortbow; stealthy)
Hunstman (med.inf. with axe, crossbow, shield; stealthy)
Hakkapelite (light cav with broad sword, lance, hoof, shield)

The idea is a national army low in armor but good in stealth and with high damage-dealing potential. Hakkapelites have def 18 and only cost 15 resources, but they lack special qualities that'd make them rival centaur warriors or vanir.


units cap only:
Vaetti
Vaetti Wolfrider



National spells:

Code:

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Spellsong of the Forest People, N3/9 gems ritual, conj 3 

     3x "kithaironic bear" with prot 18, att 12, str 23



Spellsong of the Mountain People, E2N1/15 gems ritual, conj 3 

     Gnome: E2N2 stealthy mage with glamour 



Spellsong of the Water People, W2N1/19gems ritual, conj 4 

      N�kki: W2, 2xWDN magic. Costs upkeep.



Spellsong of the Grave People, N1D1, Thaum 1 

      national Seven Year Fever



Spellsong of the Wood People, N2, Alt 2 

       mag.res.negates, AoE 5 version of Aim to be used on archers



Spellsong of the Steel People, N1E1, Ench 3 

        heals 10 dmg on range 25, AoE 3



Spellsong of the High Heart, N2/1 gem, Alt 0

        Fanaticism that costs 1 gem. Nation has no priests that can cast sermon of courage. 

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heroes:
not done yet, but will include Väinämöinen (mage with good E, lesser NWD, low awe and good combat skills), Ilmarinen (mage with good A, lesser F and/or E, forge bonus) and Hiisi (custom moose-riding Troll King with a bit of Nature in addition to Earth) and possibly one or more of the following:
-Louhi, a seithkona/norna type crone that shapechanges into a Great Eagle or Ziz
-Joukahainen, a foolish hero with a bit of magic skill and lots of inherent flashy equipment like a flaming bow, a fiery mount, perhaps sailing ability
-Lemmink�inen, a human hero that her mother brings back from the dead (immortal?)
-small man who comes from the sea and transforms into a hulking giant in bronze equipment (fomorian in full bronze armor?)

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This thread is ancient and hasn't aged well. Because of this, I made a new thread for release (version 0.85 and on).

New thread here

[Edi]

Fire, Endo. You need Fire magic for base mages, though it should be minor. Fire is one of the most important elements in Finnish folklore. It is the basis for all of our myths about house elves/gnomes (haltiat). The original haltia was a fire spirit, which would spring into being wherever a fire was lit and it would have an appearance akin to whoever made the fire.

This morphed into the kodinhaltia when settlements became permanent, but the kodinhaltia was liked to the fireplace of the house. I read a book on our folklore (actual research into it, not just a collection of myths) and within the geographical boundaries of Finland, there are mentions of hundreds of different spirits, with over two hundred names for fire spirits alone.

So just put F1 on the common mages, though the best the nation should get with fire mages is F2 at the most aside from Ilmarinen.

[Endoperez]

I'd really like to keep Earth, but it just has to go. I'd really like to keep Witches and Gnomes, but I might have to give both up. It's very annoying, but Earth just doesn't fit the nation at all. I had themed even Hiisi as a renegade Troll King, but trolls and fire don't work well together.

What about this kind of a mage roster:

everywhere:
N1 100%FWDN Wiseman, sacred, not priest
N2H1 10%E Bear Tribe Shaman, stealthy
capital:
N2F1 210%FWDN Spellsinger

This way the nation has:
1) cheap, sacred researcher
2) access to a stealthy mage that can buff the stealthy troops, esp. cast Spellsong of the High Heart
3) a mage/priest recruitable everywhere
4) eventually a Nature/Earth mage, that can start summoning Gnomes if given Earth Boots or 30 Earth gems for empowerment

The only problem is that I'd have liked to change Spellsong of the High Heart into N1F1 now that I could have. I can't write here how troublesome it has been to come up with these changes. I really liked Earth, and needed it for the gnomes, and had to change lots of things. It was a really annoying process that can be summed up to "I don't know how experienced modmakers can go through all this more than once! AARGH! This doesn't work either!"

[DrPraetorious]

What era?

b/c even for late era, that is not strong magic - you could give them earth as well, no problem.

[Endoperez]

I'm not sure yet. At the moment, I'm thinking of light armor but good damage potential. I'm also considering all-around mapmove of at least 2 for all units (light and med infantry, stealthy archers, stealthy med inf. with crossbows) and forestsurvival, with perhaps one or more of the other survival types thrown in for even better movement rate. However, I also want crossbows, so Early age is out.

I'd like to add more mages, but I'm out of ideas ATM. Comparing Spellsinger to mages of Middle, it seems he could be made available everywhere without balance problems. Perhaps a bit more versatile with his double random, but not out of line. I'll add a variation of Vaetti hags to the capital, but that's all I have left.

[DrPraetorious]

Let's assume mid-era, as there are a lot of late-era mods already. Don't the Finns have something of a reputation as sorcerers among their neighbors, Kelavala aside?

I'd drop the Vaetti, or make everyone Vaetti.

This is my suggestion for magic paths and special powers.

Witch (everywhere) - EN,{FWE,75%}{FWN,75%},healer 20%,prevent bad events 10%
Spellsinger (everywhere) - F2N2,{FEDN,100%}{FEDN,10%}
Shaman (capital only) - Sacred, turns into a Bear, maybe even a werebear (thugable), E2N2,{FWEN,10%}
Sorcerer (capital only) - D2WFN,{FWDN,100%},{FWDN,10%}

Another option would be to convert some of those heroes into commanders - so the witches could have air magic and *all* turn into giant eagles; the sorcerers could all have forge bonuses.

I sure hope they add more nation slots

[Endoperez]

I'll release an initial version soon. I'd like to give them some more recruitables, but I hope their existing ones are enough. I want a better name, though. This isn't about Kalevala, but about mythological Finland. I can't use "Sons of Kaleva" either, because that'd refer to giants.

I might use Arnfinnr. It comes from old Norse saying "To do an Arnfinn" - to utterly beat an opponent in every way possible. I'd like to release it as soon as possible, so suggestions are welcome. Especially from Finns, and especially if any of the new Finns here happen to be university professors of Finnish language, pre-christian myths and military.

[Lingchih]

Well done Endo. I can't wait to play it. Thanks much.

[HoneyBadger]

I'm not Finnish-not very anyway, although there's certainly some old Norse blood in me.

The only thing I can really add, if you're looking for names, is that I often take words from ancient languages, or languages that I don't speak, and name units after words that *might* refer/apply/invoke them. It's hard, without years of devoted study (more than really is necessary just to make a decent mod) to convert any historical society into a Dominions nation, without losing some...reality(for lack of a better word) in the translation. But, as long as you respect your source, to the best of your ability, you can give it a proper homage, without having a degree in the language.

If a Romanian/Dacian/Kurgan linguistics professor ever plays my Cimmeria mod, they'll probably laugh at me, but atleast they'll maybe get the joke.
And I like to think that in some small part, I'm paying tribute to people, their culture and their language, that I'm to helping keep from being forgotten, which is important to me.

For example: 'Rautiainen' in Finnish-as far as I can find out-means "Blacksmith" or "from the family of a blacksmith". So if I were making a Finnish nation, and I had a spot for a commander with forging-or a big strapping soldier unit-I might name them "Rautianen". To further connect the non-commander unit to the meaning of the word, I might give them a small 5% forging bonus, if they were GORed. It's a minor advantage, but it still stays true-on some level, however shallow-to my desire to respect my source.

Fortunately, we've got Endoperez on the job, and I'm sure you can do a much better overall job than I ever could, because you have the motivation of your heritage. But it's always nice to "fill the gaps" with as close as you can get, linguistically, and if you can do that without pulling out all your hair, what's the harm?

[Jarkko]

Possible names:

Singersmiths

Ukkoseppo

Salon herrat or perhaps Salon Herra

Or perhaps Saloseppo

Incidently, you are aware that Lönnroth changed "Veen emonen" to "Väinämöinen"? Thus "Mother of Waters" turned to an old man with a with a funny instrument. Lönnroth had apparently decided it was not good to have a female creator/hero.