Magic For Dummies?

[DonCorazon]

I have spent some time looking around the forums for some general tips on magic strategy. While there are lots of pieces here and there, and much is obviously context-specific such as strategies for certain nations and ages, I would love to hear some general tips from the pros (or links to other relevant threads). If it must be context-specific, then I would throw out MA Ulm / EA Neifelheim / LA Jormon as examples where I could use some advice.

Questions:
Do you generally focus on:
1. construction to outfit your commanders/Pretender
2. conjuration for more units
3. evocation for some battle spells
4. others?

Is there a commonly used path eg construction to 4 for magic boosters, then evocation for battle spells?
It seems magic research paths should be an essential part of strategy for each nation / pretender combo and I am sure there are an infinite variety but that is what is getting me in to trouble � I do not even know where to start.

Thanks!

[lch]

Most common is to research the site search spells first (Thau 2, Evoc 2, Conj 3 I believe it was) before doing something specific, but you can gun for something more important to boost your province grabbing, too, like Buff spells (Alt/Ench) for an imprisoned SC pretender, Bladewind/Thunderstrike for Ulm/Caelum and so on. But in general your question can't be answered like this. You aim for something specific, which may be to protect against an enemy or enhance your battle prowess, that's all. What you never should do is to divide research except if next turn the gauge will be full, then you can split off the excess research to another one.

[thejeff]

Well, I wouldn't bother with researching buff spells early for an imprisoned SC pretender.

But, yes in general it's site search spells, at least for those I have paths and capital income for, then if my troops are decent Const 4 for the first boosters, then either summons or battle magic based on my mages.

SCs usually wait a little, but if I've got recruitable thugs they'll start getting cheap objects right away.

[jaif]

This really depends on nation. The only rule that I've found over all nations is "when in doubt, research". By the time you reach the part of the game where that rule breaks down, you know why you are breaking the rule.

For ULM, for example, you want conj 3 and evo 4 as quickly as possible for summon earthpower and blade-whatchacallit. Those two spells turn your smiths into combat machines against large armies. After that, construction is your main priority.

But other races are totally different. They may vary also depending on your pretender. You really need to research your race, find a few spells that you want to cast, and work from there. It's really a matter of experience, I think.

-Jeff

[Micah]

I find Ulm is usually much better served by destruction as opposed to blade wind, actually. Their flail troops (or massed archers if you meant EA ulm...late isn't good with the earth magics) do pretty well taking out anything that blade wind would do a ton of damage to (with some exceptions of course, Jaguar warriors come to mind...Maybe elephants to force morale rolls, though I'd probably want bonds of fire instead of BW). Destruction works great on stuff that flails/bows aren't so good on, like anything with good prot values.

I also wouldn't go after elephants before you get to paralyze, mind burn isn't gonna do nearly enough damage to em, whereas paralyze is as almost good as killing them (and you will kill them as long as you win the battle). Communioning for mind burn is also...umm, yeah, just don't do that.

[Lazy_Perfectionist]

In multiplayer, diplomacy is involved, and my research is often decided by my opponents.

Destruction is good for Ulm's flails, yeah, but if you a low-prot, chaff-heavy nation like R'lyeh to wage war, Blade Wind is great. Destruction's generally more versatile, though.

In the early game, I won't go beyond four just to counter a specific opponent. In the mid game or an overly long early war, I'll consider going from 3/4 to six just for one opponent.

I generally get the essentials for my race up to level 3 (site seeking, earthpower, for instance) and then focus on a school of magic that gives me a lot of options and/or dovetails with a specific strategy (yomi - darkness, ma agartha earth blood deep well with lots of golems). I deviate every now and then to get a lesser school up to two, or counter a specific opponent. Or, I focus on the essentials, then focus on the basic spells. For instance, I want at least Attentive Statues to be available for MA Agartha before I waste time and gems on remote site searching.

[lch]

thejeff said:
Well, I wouldn't bother with researching buff spells early for an imprisoned SC pretender.

Actually I meant dormant. And then it is a very viable solution to have the most common and most important buffs ready exactly when the pretender awakens. He'll take one province every turn from then on and scare off others, too.

[Rytek]

I know you don't want to hear this. But what you research is really based upon your nation, your pretender and your gem income.

For instance in one of my multi player games I am MA MAN. I had 1 major goal, and that was to get gift of health up before the second winter so that way I could coninue recruiting witches every turn without fear of disease from their severe old age. My nation has misfortune 2, combined with order 3. I get some very tough random attacks from knights. Not even PD 25 can stop these random knight attacks. But I have created a reactionary force of Avaonian knights with gift of health up they have incredible hits and can take out the knights on the next round with few if any losses. I actually researched alteration 5 first in order to get the great oak up and then raced to enchantment 5 to get gift of health up. That goal was reached on turn 21, before the second turn of winter.

A solid magic strategy for Niefelheim is researching constrution to 4 right away. Use your gems to outfit your 500 gold Niefel commanders. Give your Pretender a decent bless like Earth 9, Nature (6-9). Then concentrate on getting certain spells for your commanders: Quickness, soul vortex, breath of winter, cloud trapeze and mist form for those rare A2 giants. Once you have your base spells covered then you want to look at your situation. Look at your gem income and random sights. Have a large death gem income? You could start going up the conjuration tree looking at Well of misery. Large nature gem income? Gift of health is great to heal of your wounded commanders. Not to mention the health bonus they get fighting in your dominion. Large earth gem income... Forge of the ancients is a win spell if you can keep it up for any amount of time.

As for MA ULM-this is not the best way, just one way to show you how to plan your magic. Take an awake Cyclops with E6,N2. On turn 1 Cyclops forges blacksteel shield, On turn 2 use the smith you bought on turn 1 to forge a sword of sharpness. On turn 3 send your Cyclops out with your Sword and Shield and conquer indep. Meanwhile your army is heading another way. Recruit a smith every turn and head for Thaughtmaturgy 2 for the sight searching spells. when you get it, make sure you search every province for Earth.This whole strategy centers on focusing on earth. Next you want enchant 2 in order to give your Cyclops the regeneration spell.Then switch to construction 2 and fill out your Cyclops' equipment. After that you want conjuration 3 for summon earth power. Finally, head to enchantment 6(or is it 7?) in order to have your Cyclops cast Earthblood deepwell. This will give you a large earth income. Have your cyclops start spamming enchant statues while heading for construction 9 for your final goal of spreading mechanical dragons everywhere. This strategy is very effective because all your efforts are focused. But, most likely you lose the end game because you are not diversified enough.

LA Jomon: Again, this is not the ultimate strategy, just something to show you how to develop a magical plan. Take a sleeping Phoenix with A4,F4. Recruit and expand with nothing but Samurai Archers. research to thaut 2 for your sight searching spells. Next goal is ennchantment 4 for fire arrows. When your pretender awakes take your archer army and attack one of your neighbors. supply your phoenix with enough gems to cast fire arrows multiple times and watch the carnage. research up further and get arrow fend then switch to alteration 5 for wind guide.

[DonCorazon]

Thanks everyone for all the thoughts. Rytek your advice is very helpful, especially as an illustration of how to think about planning. The tough part as a noob is knowing what is worth aiming for and your tips will help.

[Lazy_Perfectionist]

It really is best if you're focusing on a specific nation, but here's my attempt to be general.

1). Focus on construction if you one of the following a). have a melee commander with over 30 hitpoints available b). a good gem income, easily produced boosters, and mages who can benefit from another level c). a supercombatant pretender d). easily available forge bonus

2). I focus on conjuration after considering the following factors: a). surplus of gems b). lack of gold - lots of wastelands. c). versatile mages versus very focused mages d). specific national lack e). national gem income f). special national summons

It's two different decisions to focus on conjuration before and during a game. The more versatile your mages are, the more successful a conjuration strategy is going to be. For instance, LA Atlantis reliably gets only two paths of magic, water and death. But that's no guarantee you're going to get a high death or water income in your first fifteen provinces. Eventually, you'll have a solid income, but early on it may not be there for you at the necessary mass for conjuration- especially if you wasted gems on unsuccessful dark knowledges. On the other hand, EA Yomi has ready access to fire, earth, death, and some nature. With minors in air. You're almost guaranteed to have a surplus in at least one type of gem- especially with EA's site density.

During the game, one of my priorities is often to get a few (three, four at very most) cheap, sacred, versatile low-level mages (WD Tungalik for Atlantis) searching every territory I own physically. As Yomi, however, I send just a few high level mages to search all the immediately adjacent provinces to my capital - approx. six, - see the income, and then think about remote site searching.

Once I see where I've got surplus gems, I see what conjurations I could cast, which will mesh with my forces, who I might be at war with, and analyze from there. Regardless of my decision, I almost always research up to level two or three at least, for site searching and spells like Summon Earthpower.