Production queue limit problems

[Loren]

The queue is too short!

I've hit this before with low-resource units like Shamblers but this time I hit it on good stuff.

I'm playing Helheim. I have Riches from Beneath and Fata Morgana up. I have good scales.

Oops--I tried to recruit a Hangadrott, Helhirding's to my holy limit and Mounted Hirdmen to use up my production capacity. I ran out of ability to queue units before I quite used up my available resources.

Please make the queue longer!!!

[Ironhawk]

What is the limit? I've never had probs with it.

[Nick_K]

1 commander and 100 ordinary units per province per turn

[MaxWilson]

Wow, 1300 resources/turn? Presumably this isn't the 3.08 patch or it would be even higher (I don't know how much lightweight scale was increased). Maybe I should give Fata Morgana and Riches from Beneath a second look.

On the other hand, it is somewhat realistic that you can't train unlimited amounts of soldiers even if you have enough blacksmiths to forge all their armor. Maybe each soldier has to get a personally signed plaque from <the new god> before he'll fight, and your pretender can only schedule so much time for each province. Kind of similar to how the commander academy can only produce one new commander per turn because, uh, the commander cadets want their fifteen days of fame (since they know they're going to get killed soon) and purposefully stagger their graduation dates so each one gets his name in headlines all month.

I'm just sayin', instead of a bug in implementation you can think of it as an extra constraint on unit production, albeit one which is rarely a limiting factor.

-Max

[lch]

Defending an implementational shortcoming with roleplaying logic is funny. Even though the limitation here is justified, as you'll have to set the bar somewhere after all.

[Loren]

It is the 3.08 patch.

Note that this is *NOT* my highest resource province, either--I've got one I recently captured that's even higher. Mountainous terrain, it only has 4230 people but it's getting 1313 resources/turn--and that's with a perennial 5 unrest due to a brigand lair.

[Saxon]

Seems to me that this ties to the other thread that stats there is a unit ceiling for the entire game of 100k units. I jokingly said only Gandalf Parker plays games that big, but obviously not.

If you are pulling in this many units a turn, it is likely that your opponents are as well. Given the gold you must have, you must have a decent sized empire and so do they. Let us assume 500 units are being added to the game a turn, if not more. You are buying top quality troops, others may be buying chaff.

That unit ceiling is going to get hit in 200 turns, which is a pretty long game, even on a big map. If you remove the unit limit, the unit ceiling is going to get hit a lot earlier, leading to another problem.

[Edi]

Seems to me that the complaints about the 100 unit limit in the queue and not using up all resources under highly specific circumstances is little more than bellyaching. For the vast majority of cases, it is not an issue at all and rare enough to not warrant changes.

And as Saxon points out, it's a choice between the lesser of two evils. Increasing the unit ceiling is not an option due to performance issues even on high end systems.

[Jazzepi]

Edi said:
Seems to me that the complaints about the 100 unit limit in the queue and not using up all resources under highly specific circumstances is little more than bellyaching. For the vast majority of cases, it is not an issue at all and rare enough to not warrant changes.

And as Saxon points out, it's a choice between the lesser of two evils. Increasing the unit ceiling is not an option due to performance issues even on high end systems.

Between Edi and Gandalf it's surprising that anyone bothers to raise any issue with Dominions 3. This is a legitimate complaint, but every time someone tries to bring up something that could be improved or has been giving them issues, sooner rather than later one of you two posts about how people should stop whining about Dom 3 and just worship it in all it's semi-perfect glory.

Jazzepi

[PvK]

Jazzepi said:
Between Edi and Gandalf it's surprising that anyone bothers to raise any issue with Dominions 3. This is a legitimate complaint, but every time someone tries to bring up something that could be improved or has been giving them issues, sooner rather than later one of you two posts about how people should stop whining about Dom 3 and just worship it in all it's semi-perfect glory.

I don't imagine anyone has any problem with suggestions. But often suggestions are over-stated as problems, which confuses the issue and leads to people trying to put problems in perspective. Given that it's a very complex game with tons going on and many great ideas about what could make it even more fun, there is of course a constant large list of bugs and suggestions, and so it's helpful to put suggestions in proper perspective, and it can be confusing to everyone from new players to Illwinter if discussions are out of proportion. In this case, for example, while it's a perfectly good suggestion that ideally there would be no recruitment limit, and this thread nicely explains the circumstances where it can occur and be an issue for a specific game situation, it's also appropriate to reflect that this is a very rare situation (I don't remember ever running against it after years and years of play since Dominions 1). I also expect you could spend all your gold by recruiting in other provinces, and being limited to 100 Helhirdlings or whatever is the sort of problem many players would love to be their worst concern. Now, calling it "just bellyaching" might have rubbed a nerve, but it seems to me there's far more out-of-proportion comments which are complaints (e.g. people deciding unit X is worthless when they haven't realized what it's good for, and others chiming in and saying it should be changed, etc.).

As far as recruitment goes, I'd much rather see the ability to recruit mundane (non-magic, non-holy) commanders at the same time as magicians and priests in the same province, so there wouldn't be a forced choice between recruiting mages versus interesting commanders.