Death scales/Gift of Natures Bounty

Arker · #1 August 23rd, 2006, 06:34 PM

Does anyone know, offhand, how the combination of death 1 and gift of natures bounty will go? Death 2? Death 3?

Am getting close to testing it with Death 1, but I bet someone here has already done it fairly thoroughly so, please, share your insight.

I've avoided playing death scales in the past, except of course with Ermor, where it doesn't hurt. This time I'm Abysia, however, and it does hurt, although not as badly as I gather it would with most nations. I took several negative scales to get a nice bless effect for my lava warriors (fire 9/nature 9) and the lava warriors rock, but the scales are definitely a pain, after my initial expansion binge slowed down I notice my income is sinking every round, and of course maintainence is not... so I'm hoping to see gift of natures bounty at least neutralise that effect, if not turn it around.

Also, sort of conceptually related, Ermor (of course) has a couple of very nasty globals up. The one that makes everyone age quickly, of course, and also the diseased air thing, so it's a double whammy. I just got gift of health up to counter it, barely in time (about 90% of my units were afflicted.) So that seems to mostly take care of it, although every turn I have several sick units, at least it's different ones each time and they aren't dying. But I'm wondering if that was the best choice. I could have dispelled their globals more quickly, then got gift up anyway at a later date, but I saved the astral gems to make nature with for gift ASAP instead. The rationale being that leaving Ermors globals in place, but defeating them as regards my own troops only with gift, would be advantageous as the other nations would still be afflicted. Of course in my mind gift was defeating them, but in fact, it's still affecting me too, just not so badly as everyone else. And I'm a little worried that by the time I find Ermor they'll have gobbled up so many AI players I won't stand a chance against them... what do you think?

shovah · #2 August 23rd, 2006, 08:44 PM

Not sure of the effects of GoNB/death but those lava warriors would do far better with n9/e9 (still deadly, higher prot and good reinvig)

Arker · #3 August 23rd, 2006, 09:29 PM

Well, for the record, GoNB is NOT enough to overcome Death 1.

I should have paid closer attention before I cast it for comparison, but population is still clearly going down every turn with it up.

Which means back to the drawing board, end of game essentially. I'm playing a rather large map and while I got a nice start, my income is still sinking, and it's already so low that I can barely maintain my army, no chance of expanding it. And my army is not sufficient to hold what I have, really, at this point.

I might well try that n9/e9 pretender if I can pull one off without taking death scales. I've run the earthmama chassis e5/n9 before with another nation and did very well.

This was the, son of the desert sun(?) - the one that summons lions in battle. Thought I'd try something different. Very cool, but if I can't figure out a way to get it without going to death scales it's just not workable on anything but a small map I guess.

You really think that e9 bless would be better on lava warriors than f9? I figured dual-wielded flaming maces would be pretty awesome, and you know what? THEY ARE

They shred anything that gets in their way mighty quick... I don't think I've ever seen knights go down that quick, and ethereal undead don't stand a chance...

Oh yeah, before you think I shouldn't have so much trouble getting this without death scales, keep in mind also that it's a map with a LOT of water, water cult is really a requirement to stand a chance with a land nation as a result, and since lava warriors are home province only I want better admin than the guard tower as well. I'd prefer the fortified city, wound up with the fortress to make it work... had disorder 2 sloth 1 heat 3 death 1... maybe disorder 2 sloth 2 would be bearable though.

Graeme Dice · #4 August 23rd, 2006, 10:27 PM

Quote:

Arker said:
I'd prefer the fortified city, wound up with the fortress to make it work... had disorder 2 sloth 1 heat 3 death 1... maybe disorder 2 sloth 2 would be bearable though.

The turmoil scale is the reason you couldn't afford your troops, not the death scale. A scale of death 1 might start to have a noticeable effect on your home province after about 60 turns. In your other provinces, you'll have to wait even longer before the negative effects start to creep up. On the other hand, by taking turmoil 2, you decreased your total income by almost 30% compared to order 3.

Arker · #5 August 23rd, 2006, 10:33 PM

I know the turmoil lowers income, but it should lower it to a point then stabilise. Since I had good dominion spread at the beginning, most of my provinces were already showing turmoil from it before I conquered them. My income was going down every turn, however, and so was the population. One province next to my capital was down to 310 people...

KissBlade · #6 August 23rd, 2006, 11:55 PM

Turmoil is by far the biggest income killer compared to any other scales.

Graeme Dice · #7 August 24th, 2006, 04:04 AM

Quote:

Arker said:
I know the turmoil lowers income, but it should lower it to a point then stabilise.

Not at all. Every point of order increases your income by 7%. Every point of turmoil decreases your income by 7%. This is a constant effect that depends solely on the current order/turmoil scale in a given province.

Quote:

My income was going down every turn, however, and so was the population. One province next to my capital was down to 310 people...

Every level of the death scale reduces population by 0.2% per turn. That province likely only started with a few hundred people.

NTJedi · #8 August 24th, 2006, 08:08 PM

Quote:

Arker said:
I've avoided playing death scales in the past, except of course with Ermor, where it doesn't hurt. .....
I notice my income is sinking every round, and of course maintainence is not... so I'm hoping to see gift of natures bounty at least neutralise that effect, if not turn it around.

Remove Burden of Time first... this is one nasty spell. Gift of Health will help, but is no balance for the damage it's doing.

Quote:

Arker said:
Also, sort of conceptually related, Ermor (of course) has a couple of very nasty globals up. The one that makes everyone age quickly, of course, and also the diseased air thing, so it's a double whammy.

....

And I'm a little worried that by the time I find Ermor they'll have gobbled up so many AI players I won't stand a chance against them... what do you think?

My guess is Ermor is being done by a human player OR you haven't patched the game. I rarely see Ermor cast Burden of Time with the recent patches. If Ermor is human then you have good reason to worry.

Arker · #9 August 24th, 2006, 08:45 PM

Quote:

NTJedi said:
Remove Burden of Time first... this is one nasty spell. Gift of Health will help, but is no balance for the damage it's doing.

Yes, that's one thing I've learned. I was seriously underestimating the effect of Ermors globals. I still don't know if the gift spells would offset the death scale or not, and I'm not sure I'll even find out. I wound up making a new pretender based on some suggestions here and I'm liking him so much I don't feel like reviving the other game right now.

Quote:

My guess is Ermor is being done by a human player OR you haven't patched the game. I rarely see Ermor cast Burden of Time with the recent patches. If Ermor is human then you have good reason to worry.

Nope, it's AI. With the latest patch and the CB mod. And Ermor almost always seems to cast that in my experience, except when they get taken out very early. In the past I scrambled to dispell it. Sometimes another AI dispelled it first. But this time I thought I'd let it kill the opposition while I countered it with Gifts instead... obviously I learned that's not the way to do it