Tips and/or suggestions for starting game

[mac5732]

ok, would some kind souls out there be kind enough to offer some tips, hints, and/or suggestions on game play, ie; which research should you go for lst, expansion, lst turn etc.

would be well appreciated

[Saber Cherry]

All of this is completely (nation+pretender)-dependant. I could probably write a computer program to generate this advice, on a given input (though it would take quite a while).

I'll give an example of Magic Research, which is roughly 1/2 of your consideration when determining a strategy.

Magic:

1) Consider the magic levels of the mages of the nation: M
1a) Consider the ratio of gold/research (gold/RP) for your nation: GPR.
1b) Consider the freely achievable magic levels, using spells such as "Summon Earthpower": Mf.
1c) Consider the costed achievable magic levels, using items such as "Thistle Mace": Mc
1d) Consider the combined levels, including spells achievable only with Mc: Mcf
1e) Consider summoned mage levels, including spells achievable only with Mc: Mcfs.
1f) Consider common independants, such as Druids (2 nature, 2 holy) and Sages (1 random).
1g) Consider ultimate levels, considering all summoned mages plus their summons or boosting items (recusively): Mu.
1h) Note that there is also the set Mx, which includes rare combinations (like double unlinked randoms), empowerment, lucky independant mage provinces, and battle spells boosted by an additional gem. Mx is not very important except in the last case, and common indy mages (druids). Mu is a proper subset of Mx.

2) Consider gem income: GI.
2a) Consider base national gem income, GIn, from the capitol.
2b) Consider seaRchable magic site income, GIr, the income that can be found by searching with national mages. Naturally, this is mostly limited to the magic levels of national mages - water mages will mainly find sites giving water gems.
2c) Consider common "level-0" magic sites, like Kelp Forests (or something), that give magic gems and can be found by non-mages.
2d) Consider your nations's inherent site-scrying ability (from M), with spells like "Gnome Lore" and "Acashic Record". The gems generated from 2a through 2d are "GInrs".
2e) Also consider the extended scrying ability from Mc (for example, a 2-astral mage plus a 2-astral Starshine Skullcap allows Acashic Record), GInrse, but this is not too important in the early-midgame.
2f) Consider gem-generating items: Clam of Pearls, Fever Fetish, Earth Blood Stone.

3) Consider which spells and items in M are "good" (e.g. Falling Fires, Falling Frost, Blade Wind, Nether Darts, Shadow Blast, Mass Protection, Relief... and various Rituals).
3a) If you are C'tis (with Raise Skeletons), Abysia (with Falling Fires), Pythium (with Stellar Cascades, Mind Burn, Solar Rays, etc), Vanheim (Blade Wind), and so forth, you're golden.
3b) Otherwise, goto 4.

4) Consider construction.
4a) Ulm has a 25% forge bonus.
4b) Nations with 3 Earth magic can forge Dwarven Hammers (-25% forging cost).
4c) Nations with 2 Earth magic can forge Earth Boots, +1 Earth, then Dwarven Hammers.
4d) Nations that can easily summon supercombattants MUST RESEARCH CONSTRUCTION. A supercombattant (SC) "chassis" is a leader that has high HP and high stats, and all the normal slots (head, body, feet, 2+ hands, 2+ miscellaneous). A supercombattant is an SC chassis with most of these slots filled with magically forged items. Supercombattants often get 100-1000 kills, rising in the hall of heroes to gain huge stat boosts.

5) Consider which spells and items in Mf are "good".
5a) Adjust your boosted GPR according to national availability of items like Owl Quill, Skull Mentor, Lightless Lantern, and cheap researchers like Specters.
5b) Calculate the RP cost of attaining them, including "Summon Xpower" spells.
5c) Go for the most cost-effective ones, including RP and gold.

6) Consider which spells and items in Mcf are "good".
6a) Calculate the RP cost of attaining them, including booster spells AND construction.
6b) Go for the most cost-effective ones, including (2b) plus gems for forging.

7) Consider which spells in Mu or Mx are "good".
7a) Calculate the RP cost of attaining them, including booster spells, construction, and conjuration/enchantment for summoning powerful mages.
7b) Go for the most cost-effective ones. This time, it includes (3b) plus gems for conjuring mages, and random chance...

8) Consider Blood. It is the lone magic resource that all nations can break into.
8a) It helps to have a human rainbow Pretender that can forge Sanguine Dousing Rods, Brazen Skulls, and so forth.
8b) Regardless, set aside some provinces at 0% tax with scouts doing "Blood Hunt".
8c) Eventually, use blood slaves for empowerment of national mages (or your pretender) to summon massive blood summons: Ice Devils, Arch Devils, Father Illearth, etc.
8d) You can also make Blood Thorns, an awesome life-stealing weapon for supercombattants.

9) Consider Alchemy. It lets you transform gems into other gems, at a massive 50% loss. I use it all the time.
9a) Alchemy is most efficient on Astral gems.
9b) Astral gems come from Astral nations, and... Clams.
9c) Nations with Fire gems, like Abysia, can turn them into 15 gold each in the early game for a massive head start. Fire gems are not very useful anyway.



As you can see, even magic research is too difficult to determine statically (meaning, without any input such as nation, theme, and pretender). But if you ask for suggestions on a given triple (nation, theme, pretender) or ask for advice on completing a triple (which pretender for this nation+theme ?), people can be pretty helpful.

[shovah]

tell me your nation and your pretender and i can help, otherwise its kinda hard.

[Gandalf Parker]

If you are just starting out then turn the independents higher. It holds the AI's in check so you can do some buildup. A setting of about 6 or even 7 if you plan to do research. If you play with the defaults then the AI will probably swarm in on you fairly quickly.

[Nerfix]

shovah said:
tell me your nation and your pretender and i can help, otherwise its kinda hard.

Yeah, do tell us what nation you plan on playing.

All of them have their diffrent nuances. Abysia has heavy troops and blood sacrifices, Machaka can spam Blind and Eagle Eyes + Decay, Pythium has awesome Communion possibilities and so on.

EDIT: Or then tell use what sort of playstyle you prefer. Sneaking with stealth armies, heavy troops, magic summons, anything?

[Gandalf Parker]

Yes, telling us your preferred playing style can help alot. The only "killer strategy" in this game is to find the nation and pretender which BESTS allows you to play the way you tend to play. Im all stealth and I tend to play Pangaea while my son is more "swarming horde" and does well with Ermor

[mac5732]

well as for style, just staying alive would be nice , It just seems that in beginning, you have a choice of expansion with cheap troops, however you need priests to build temples in those captured provinces, or you start research but this means you have to build more mages to help up your research and cut back on troops, plus you will need mages and priests to search the captured provinces. Ok, It seems that the Ai does swarm quickly where ever a human player is even if there are neutrals still left. SO, generaly, do you go for research immediatly and less troops, or more cheap troops and take provinces, or build mages to help with research and searching for magic sites? Also in searching magic sites, I know you need a priest or mage to search and helps if they have that particular type. It just seems like they never find many. Last 2 games I found exactly 2 sites, no matter who I put to search.. which doesn't help. So any advise in general as to starting out would be appreciated. I will boost the Neutrals higher as Gandolf said...
tks for the help from an old geezer

[Chazar]

An important thing is the survival of your tools, err, troops! Wait long enough to built a sensible army in order to conquer without much losses in the beginning:

• If you have an immortal pretender like the Vampire Queen or something else that is pretty strong like a Wyrm, they can give you a high expansion rate by going on their own right away. Scout ahead nevertheless.
• Some pretenders need plenty of archer backup to conquer (Air magic for AirShield or EarthMagic for high protection helps here), so take 1-3 turns to produce enough archers. A medium expansion (since the later you conquer the less money for more troops you have as usual).
• If you sport an Immobile commander like I often do, you'll have to wait a bit before going out and conquering (say, 3-6 turns). The troops consist on your nation, e.g. with caelum, you need a level 4 prophet seraphine priest and a certain fixed number of mammoths and wingless (5-8? I forgot...). Later on add as many archers and mages as you can, without ever stopping the army. The late expansion is usually offset by incredibly good scales (high money income) and fast early research (by good scales and by your bored immobile pretender).
• Human pretender without the Conceptual Balance Mod or similar: Restart right away if you do not have a well-thought plan!

This is for an initial setup only. No research, temples, labs or fortresses are built usually during this phase of aggressive expansion. Only bored mages, if any, search for sites. Occasionally some forging for your pretender or prophet (-> early SC).

A few turns later that changes drastically, with research, forging and most important, site searching taking priority...

Another key is to setup a sensible strategy AT PRETENDER DESIGN. This cannot be stressed enough, as the game becomes unplayable with a badly designed pretender or not knowing the masterplan behind it. There are many nation specific threads which discuss pretender design and the idea behind it. Just search for nation names...
(its really a shame that there is no canonical set of pretender templates with a short description revealing the idea behind them!!!)

Oh, and I strongly advice against strong indipendents, as it makes for boring games, deciding the outcome long before nations clash. I usually choose small maps with easy independents to get right into the thick of it. More fun that way.... ...and that's how I learned how to design a pretender. Play 10-20 turns, loose and learn, rinse and repeat

[shovah]

and decide on what late gamespells/summons you plan to use. if your nation dosnt have any super expanders like mammoths and lacks good ranged power use some heavily armour units (or try a bless) to minimize casualtys. bless's can also be good (mictlan can get some nasty bless's, try a lord of the night with f9 d4 b4 e4, great summons and a nice bless+hes strong and gets 2 free fiends of darkness in battle.

[Endoperez]

You might want to try Clash of the Titans map. It is a two-player map without Water nations, and while it works better against another human, I'm sure you'll also have interesting times against an AI. Test against one nation that your nation can counter naturally, in the beginning. As an example, Ulm can be hard if you don't have crossbows and you need expensive mages against their armor, and Abysia can be very hard if you can't protect your troops from fire or destroy their troops from afar.