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Old October 8th, 2005, 10:22 PM
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Default Semi-OT: The Icaran Empire Preview (the book one)

Hi folks well one I just wanted to say YES I am still typing up my next few chapters for my game story. I still think I need the practice before I start writing a real book and I greatly enjoy writing for you guys so that story ain't gonna die anytime soon

Well on the positive side my College Writing prof. said she looks forward to seeing my name on a book some day soon so that's a moral boost for me


Anyway here is a wee bit of a preview of the Icaran Star Empire from my planned book.

Brief History:
The Icaran City State was once a prosperous metropolis on the outer most tip of Greece, the Icarans themselves were a race of poets, priests and philosophers and because of this their army was nearly non-existant.
One day in the year 2,000 BC the Spartans, a society dedicated to waging warfare and who's entire male populace made up its army fell upon the outer territories of the Icarans; sweeping aside all of what little resistance the Icaran army could throw together.

At this time in Icaran history the city state was ruled by the Triumverate, a council of three "kings" and unfortunately for the war effort these three men were incompetent military commanders and so devoted to the idea that women were inferior they would not even permit the icaran female populace to take up the farming duties that the men they sent off to war could no longer perform.
After two bloody years of war and famine somewhere in the order of half the Icaran population died, the bulk of this being men, and still the Triumverate refused to allow women to perform any of the necessary tasks that the men now gone could not.

In the last days of the second year of the war, when all seemed lost one man, Alexander, who commanded the Icaran home garrison led his troops in a violent coup against the triumverate, and it is said that he personally put the heads of the triumverate on pikes and marched them through the city as a symbol of the end of the Triumverate's rule.
In a series of sweeping reforms Alexander reformed the Icaran army, women were drafted and taught to use the bow and ride horses to war while the men provided the heavy infantry forces which now carried long rectagular shields and short swords instead of the old bronze round shields and long spears. Gone also was the bronze armor that the Triumverate had issued due to it's cheap cost, this was replaced by the latest in Icaran armor, segmented iron plates that provided much more protection for Icaran warriors.

Alexander also created the first "special forces" units, made up entirely of women who proved to be exceptional shots and posessed deadly skills with short bladed daggers. Alexander named this force of women the "shadow daggers" and gave them the task to raid the Spartan supply trains and small phalanxes of Spartiate warriors.
As the shadow daggers struck throughout the the fallen territories hundreds of spartiate warriors were killed, and the morale of the Spartan army began to faulter.

In the middle of the third and final year of the war the Spartan king had grown weary of the hit and run night attacks on his army and decided to march into one final battle against the upstart Icarans whom he beleived were on the very edge of breaking.
In this final showdown the entire Spartan army and the newly formed Icaran Army met on an open field near Icara city its self. As the two armies engaged one another the Spartans found to their suprise not a broken and defeated garrison but a fresh and battle ready force which relied on mobility, cavalry and archers in support of a force of heavy infantry columns.

Before the spartans even got into range with their spears the Icaran horse archers (almost entirely women and young girls) had killed hundreds; The archers on foot had also begun raining arrows down upon the slowly moving phalanx causing massive casualties.
Alexander himself led the Icaran infantry in a brutal charge into the Spartan ranks and legend says that he led this charge even while his horse archers continued to pour arrows into the flanks and rear of the phalanxes.

The battle raged for over two hours and at the end of it the entire Spartan army had been destroyed, Icaran soldiers worked their way through the corpses and slit the throats of the Spartan wounded until not a single Spartan soldier was left alive.
Though the Icarans paid a heavy price for their victory Alexander did not end his crusade with the destruction of the Spartan army but instead marched the Icaran army against Sparta its self; liberating the Helots and adding them to the population of the fast growing Icaran territories.
During the final seige of Sparta Alexander ordered all the boys over the age of seven put to the sword as they had already been indoctinated in the Spartan way of life, though wherever his armies marched Alexander showed equal lack mercy to any of his soldiers who looted or raped in the conquered Spartan territories.

In the end the bulk of the Spartan female populace, the entire helot population and most of the young males were added to the newly formed Icaran Empire; but even this was not enough for Alexander.
Sensing the mixed fear and zeal of his people Alexander recruited still more soldiers from the newly aquired populations and for the next 30 years he continued a bloody crusade that cut a swathe through the entirety of Europe.

When Alexander was 70 he finally ended his crusades and for the first time in decades Alexander returned to Icara city. In their gratitude the people of the new Icaran Empire declared Alexander to be "Praetor Alexander the 1st" and gave him near absolute power to rule the Icaran Empire such as it was.

Alexander the 1st did not live much longer, he died only three years later of illness and his son Lysander the 1st took the throne of his father. Where his father had forged an empire through blood drenched crusades Lysander added provinces through politics and economics, he reformed the government to include a nobility responsible for the management of the far flung Icaran holdings; over his administration Lysander only launched two wars against barbarian tribes to the west and though both of these wars were long and bloody ordeals the Icaran Empire grew by almost a quarter after these lands were conquered.

Lysander the 1st also set down new codes of law and justice that would make the nobles and commoners equally answerable to the law; these changes would last throughout the entire history of the Empire with very little change.

For the next two centuries Icaran armies would march and conquer tribe after tribe, city after city until the point where the whole of Europe and much of Africa was under Icaran rule. Many would wonder how the Icaran empire managed to stay so stable through two centuries of conquests and wars, and there are those who ask why so few rebellions happened. There is no single answer to these questions. In part it was the legal system of Icara that appealed to conquered cultures, for instead of being treated as slaves or second class citizens conquered peoples were simply added to the Empire as a new province and all those who did not resist were given legal citizenship.
Icara was not above rule through fear however and the Icaran "shadow daggers" who had grown from a raiding force made up entirely of women to a powerful secret police force ensured that those who might rebel never got the chance.

In the year 1238 AD a massive Icaran fleet of some two thousand ships and an army of over a hundred and fifty thousand men and women invaded Asia. At this point in Icaran history the Icaran sciences had produced early flintlock muskets and cannons which gave the Icaran Empire a massive advantage over it's asiatic foes. For five years Icaran armies swept across Asia. The bloodiest point of the early Crusade came when the Icaran armies invaded Japan, the primitive yet determined Japanese sent wave after wave of soldier against Icaran battle lines creating massive casualties on both sides. In the end however Icaran technology won out and Japan fell before Icara, though what was left of the country was barely calling a province.

The turning point in Icaran history is when the 32nd Icaran Regiment as well as the 8th London and 17th Spartan invaded China and ran streight into the armies of the Yuan dynasty.
All three Icaran regiments were completely destroyed and their weapons stolen and replicated by the Yuan scientists. As these weapons were given to the Chinese armies the Asian Crusade took it's bloodiest turn yet.

The Icaran army and fleet conducted a fighting retreat for the next twelve years and hundreds of thousands of Icarans and Chinese died before the Icaran fleet finally withdrew, the crusade forces had suffered the first true defeat the Icaran empire had suffered, of the one hundred and fifty thousand ground troops less then one third returned to Icara, and only eight hundred of the initial two thousand ships ever saw Icaran ports again.

More importantly this failed crusade would lead to a centuries long cold war between the Icaran Empire and the newly born "Empire of the Shining Star" which had risen to power under the Yuan dynasty. The positive side to this cold war however was the vast expendeture of resources on the sciences which brought advancement on by leaps and bounds.

Many small and several large wars were fought between the two great Empires over the centuries but for the most part it was a cold war where economy and politics had more value then troops and fleets.
In the year 3832 IY (Imperial Year- 1832 AD) the cold war would take a dramatic change as the first Icaran space craft orbited the Earth, this single action would lead to a change in global politics as the ESS and the Icaran Royal Empire began a race to the stars that would last for decades.

During this time period however much of the world's population was still independent of either Empire, and these independent alliances and nations began to fear the implications of the Icarans and Asians spreading to the rest of the solar system. Entire nations became aflame with riots and civil wars as factions fought amongst themselves as political leaders fought over what should be done about this new development.

For the next one hundred years the IRE and the ESS, even many of the smaller independent nations would develope space craft capable of reaching other planets in the Sol system creating stellar Empires and even more political termoil and strife.
The Icaran Royal Empire now became the Icaran Royal Star Empire and the Icaran Royal Space Navy took control of Mars, Io, Europa, Pluto, part of Luna, Triton, Deimos, Phobos and many other moons and asteroids. The Empire of the Shining Star claimed most of what was left while colonies belonging to independent nations usually resided on massive space stations or hidden in the asteroid belt.

A wise man once said "It is human to be curious" well unfortunately it is also human to seek struggle and competition with our neighbors; and shortly after the first colonies were established the First Space War occured in the year 1925 when Icaran Spacecraft on a deep range patrol encountered ESS spaceships doing the same. The battle that followed resulted in the destruction of both sides, only one Icaran scout managed to limp back to its port and report what had occured, and of course war quickly followed.

The battles for Mars, Venus and Jupiter station are remembered as the first time in human history where full scale space fleets met each other in battle and though they were using primitive megaton level nuclear missiles, and early slug throwing cannons the battles can be described as nothing less then slaughter, dozens of space craft were destroyed in these battles, and thousands of spacers died.
The ground wars for Mars and Venus both claimed millions of lives as Icarans, ESS and Independents struggled for control of these colonies.

The first space war ended with the third battle of Luna where a combined fourty ship Icaran space fleet defeated the remnants of the Oceanan space fleet and proceeded to land ground troops on the ESS and Oceanan Lunar colonies, capturing both.

The treaty that was signed between Icara and the ESS following this war also ended the centuries long cold war between these two powerful Empires.

Unfortunately in 3423 IY a madman named Adolf Hitler rose to power in the Germania province of Icara, for five years he secretly built a small space fleet and appropriated resources to create an army and ocean navy as well. In 3428 the Nazi Reichsflotte launched a nuclear holocuast upon the Lunar colonies depopulating Luna in less then five hours and killing over two million people in the process.

This "Nazi Rebellion" as it is known in history lasted only two years as the full military might of Icara swung into action against the Germania province laying waste to entire cities and slaughtering all who apposed the Icaran reocupation forces. In the year 3430 Hitler himself was hung by Icaran General George Marshall who had replaced General Patton whom died leading the assault on the Rhine, along with almost all of the 36th York armored regiment.

For the next hundred years Icara and the ESS conquered many independent nations; growing even more powerful. Unfortunately for both of these Empires a "United Nations" was formed by many of the more powerful independent nations, and in the year 3562 this United Nations launched a devestating nuclear attack on both the Icaran Empire and the ESS killing tens of millions in a matter of hours.

In space the Icaran Royal fleet and the ESS fleet were almost entirely destroyed by suprise attacks launched by UN fleets which had been built in secret in the asteroid belt. This bloody and devestating attack forced the Icarans and Asians into an alliance of survival and for the next year and a half they would fight a losing war to preserve their nuclear ravaged Empires.

In the end however the last remnants of the Icaran and Asian militaries rallied for one last battle, a battle designed not to win the war but to simply buy time for the two billion Icaran and Asian evacuees that would be leaving Sol in massive colony ships that would keep them in stasis until they arrived at a system with inhabitable planets.

This battle is known by Icara as "The Last March", every last ship soldier and plane the Icarans and ESS had was launched against the overwhelming UN forces on earth and in space.

The remnants of the space fleets the two once great Empires surrounded the 300 ship evacuation fleet and fought a running battle against the UN space forces until something no one could ever have predicted occured.

Through a random act of fate the combined Icara/ESS fleets hit a spacial anomoly at just the right angle to allow passage through without destroying the fleet, though many of the warships who were accelerating much faster and at much different angles then the transports were lost.

The UN forces who attempted to pursue the Icaran/ESS fleet were not as fortunate however and none made it through this anomoly intact.

The new system that the Icaran/ESS fleet entered was later named Norvor by Astrogrophers and it had two inhabitable worlds, Icara and Brandenburg.
Icara was colonized as the name suggests by the bulk of the combined fleet, however Brandenburg was colonized by five million Asian colonists due to the damage done to their ships engines prventing them from changing course.

Only one hundred years after the new colonization the Icaran Empire and the ESS stood as a united Empire for the first time in history, though many of the Asians would still not intermarry with Icarans due to cultural moores. The new Icaran Royal Empire set forth into the stars once again and though many wars followed the Icaran power grew and any xeno race that they encountered swiftly fell into slavery or extinction.

Three thousand years of colonization and warfare later the Icaran Empire now stands as the most powerful Empire in history with over four million worlds and hundreds of sphereworlds with trillions upon trillions of human beings answering to the Praetor and the nobility. And yet despite the Empire's power there are still threats to our very survival both external and internal, explorers continue to discover new worlds and new species. Even human worlds are still being discovered and though many have reverted to barbarism others have formed zieable stellar Empires of their own.

Xeno Empires also threaten the existance of mankind as they seek to purge the galaxy of human life for reasons no human can fathom and despite her power Icara must still fight for its very survival against threats their ancestors could never even dream of in their most terrifying nightmares.

(some short tech descrriptions to follow)

Anyway for the time being that's the basic summery of my Icaran Empire's history, the first book I write will deal with the early space age and reveal the previous history.

God willing that sells well the sequal will deal with Icara at roughly the time that is in the game, while the third book and any sequals will deal with the Empire at it's height/most endangered.

What do you guys think so far?
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Old October 9th, 2005, 03:39 AM
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Default Re: Semi-OT: The Icaran Empire Preview (the book one)

Starhawk writes: "...my College Writing prof. said she looks forward to seeing my name on a book some day soon..."

I wouldn't get a swelled head over that; I'm sure she says it to all her future best-selling authors.

Not a bad read, but it needs a good editor, e.g. misspellings: "triumvirate", "nonexistent", "falter", etc. The term "outer most tip of Greece" should perhaps be replaced by something more directional, e.g. southernmost, easternmost, or something like that.

This is clearly an alternate history, but it's not clear how far back it diverges from actual events. For example, I've read that Sparta didn't take on its distinctive militaristic character until the time of the (mythical?) king's advisor Lycurgus in the early Ninth Century BC.

I'm hazy on dates for the Bronze Age in Greece, but I think iron wasn't used on a large scale until well after 1,000 BC. Starhawk's tale of horse archers & such against the Spartans is quite interesting. I've been reading Kagan's book about the Peloponnesian War, 431-404 BC. In that period I gather that combined-arms forces of hoplites, cavalry, skirmishers, and missile troops generally outperformed armies based mainly on the heavily armed and armored hoplites alone.
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Old October 9th, 2005, 04:05 AM
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Default Re: Semi-OT: The Icaran Empire Preview (the book o

Way to go Starhawk... And what Hunpecked said is spot on too.
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Old October 9th, 2005, 09:07 AM
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Default Re: Semi-OT: The Icaran Empire Preview (the book one)

Hmm well Hunpecked good points about the spelling, beleive it or not I actually looked up Triumvirate right before typing it heh. Well yeah the other stuff is hiccups too I'd pay a LOT more attention for a final draft of the history.

As far as where their history and ours diverge, it goes all the way back to pre-history as you can see by the starting date of 2,000 BC and Sparta as far as I read was always rather warlike which is how they took so many slaves. I just bumped up their "time table" for full scale conversion to the warlike Sparta of later centuries.

The reason for this draft I did not give a direction of Icara yet is because honestly I was not quite sure where to put it just yet

As far as the Iron goes, funny thing is some people think that some culture's actually used primitive iron during the bronze age, I mean some folks actually invented a battery during the bronze age (can't remember whether it was a Greek or an Egyptian).
I just made it that the Icarans embraced the sciences and primitive iron instead of taking the usual ancient world approach to new things. Also I kind of heard while watching the history channel that the discovery of Iron was more or less an accident, so the Icarans just got lucky faster .

The Icaran female cavalry archers are loosely based on this one Japanese warlord who created a cavalry raiding corps entirely of women. The main logic behind this for him was that:
A) Women are lighter and thus the horses can move faster, longer.
B)He was kind of running out of men because well let's face it Japan was pretty much just a warzone for a good long while.

Oh and on the advice of other sci-fi writers they said I should change my weapon yeilds from actual power (i.e how many terrawatts) into tonnage yields. I.E how many gigaton yield per weapon and let people figure out watts and whatnot from that.

One guy said "It's easier for most people to work gigaton back to power; rather then power to gigaton. So if you just give them the end result they can work their way back to how much power is required to get it."
I figure I can work with that
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When life gives you lemons take them and squeeze them in life's eye until it gives you the oranges you asked for!

"If men build things to look like our penis such as towers and ships does that mean female achitects represent women having penis envy?"
A line that made me chuckle, I can't remember where I heard it I just know it made me laugh.

"I'm not really a slapper....I mainly punch and gouge."
Tammy Lee my kung fu instructor/sifu's daughter when asked if she ever slapped a boy for saying something nasty to her.
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Old October 10th, 2005, 04:30 PM
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Default Re: Semi-OT: The Icaran Empire Preview (the book one)

Some more thoughts on the early Icaran society described by Starhawk:

In an era of squabbling city-states I would expect even a peaceful and intellectual state to have an army at least comparable to its neighbors'. In fact, I would say such an army would be a prerequisite for the establishment of a prosperous culture; otherwise it's too tempting a target for its poorer, more warlike neighbors. It's also more difficult to expand a peacetime army in an emergency without a significant cadre of trained, experienced soldiers and a pre-existing military infrastructure. A prosperous state could fill in with mercenaries, of course, but the money would eventually run out.

I like the idea of starting a "future" AAR far in the past. On the other hand, it's a lot of work to rewrite thousands of years of history convincingly, even as an overview. In addition, when writing the "real" story, the author constantly has to keep in mind that most of the history we take for granted probably never happened in his fictional universe.
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Old October 10th, 2005, 05:46 PM
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Default Re: Semi-OT: The Icaran Empire Preview (the book one)

Hunpecked you bring up several good points, however the main point of them having such a poor quality army is because the Triumverate were rather corrupt and incompitent at their jobs which is why nearly half the Icaran populace was wiped out in the war. They also did suffer famine because of how fast they needed to raise an army, which also led in large part to the rapid defeat of Icaran armies.

The main point about rewriting thousands of years of history is also very good but the Icarans must have that history going back millenia or else it wouldn't really make sense to have a culture like Icara just sort of pop up. Any tips or suggestions you might have would be more then welcome of course.
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When life gives you lemons take them and squeeze them in life's eye until it gives you the oranges you asked for!

"If men build things to look like our penis such as towers and ships does that mean female achitects represent women having penis envy?"
A line that made me chuckle, I can't remember where I heard it I just know it made me laugh.

"I'm not really a slapper....I mainly punch and gouge."
Tammy Lee my kung fu instructor/sifu's daughter when asked if she ever slapped a boy for saying something nasty to her.
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Old October 12th, 2005, 10:14 AM
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Default Re: Semi-OT: The Icaran Empire Preview (the book one)

Interesting certainly and very comprehensive.

A couple of points though:
** Too many secretly built fleets. It's hard enough to hide surface ships from satellites, how are you going to hide not just one ship but a fleet load? This particularly applies to the Nazi rebellion, but also the UN Fleet. The asteroid belt isn't that dense so you can't hide much there.

** Everyone seems far too welcoming of the Icarans. I don't care how nice the laws are, or that I'm a full 'member' of the Empire. My countries being invaded damn it, I'm joining the resistance and death to the invader.! This is a fairly common response to invasion.

** Centuries long warfare and then the ESS just roll over and get lead by Icarans? Like the previous point, far too nice.

** Full marks to the Yuan, somone hands you something you've never seen (A flintlock), replicate it, mass produce it and train people to use it all ultra quickly. Amazing! Metallurgy and precision engineering just like that. The flintlock is 3rd/4th generation firearm and not simple, hell its a 1600s weapon. You aren't going to reverse engineer it easily or quickly.

One technical point, Bronze (being an alloy) was stronger and more expensive than Iron. The reason the Iron age followed the Bronze age is that with cheap Iron you could make lots of tools, etc that you wouldn't use expensive bronze for. As an example Roman officers had Bronze swords while soldiers had cheap Iron swords.

Still it's very ambitious and a fleshed out back story helps a great deal I always think. Especially if your planning a series of books.
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Old October 12th, 2005, 10:32 AM
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Default Re: Semi-OT: The Icaran Empire Preview (the book one)

Hey El-Phil beleive it or not it's good to hear from you

Anyway seriously on to your points

Point 1: The Nazi's are going to have had underground facilities to build their ships, remember this is early space age and starships of the era were "tiny".

And with modern stealth you can hide a surface ship from a satelite (Sea Shadow I beleive is the name of the new stealth ship) and there are plans for entire warships built around Sea Shadow tech.

Assuming the Icaranverse is a few centuries ahead of us their stealth is probobly pretty good.


Point about the UN fleet, you do realize how BIG a solar system is right? The Icarans though powerful were hardly everywhere and considering in this point in history it still took months for a ship to travel from planet to planet it would actually be pretty easy to hide a few dozen relatively small ships in the asteroid belt.

These are not the multi hundred ship kilometer+ sized ships we see later the Icaran navy was at best a hundred and fifty ships most of which were only a few hundred feet long.

Point 2: Well with secret police (I.e shadow daggers) and a government that is not above taking out entire rebellious elements and slaughtering them we are looking at a situation where it becomes a "better red then dead" situation. An iron fist hidden in a velvet glove, the Icarans would treat you as a full citizen if you complied or kill you if you didn't.

Look at Rome they were not forever at war with their newly added provinces, though they did deal with "minor" raids and border skirmishes throuhgout their history. No doubt Icara would deal with the same but that's not really worth mentioning with an Imperial scholar describing millenia past events.

Point 3: It was after both sides had been nuked and were getting their asses handed to them left and right (if you'll pardon my expression). It was simple survival they still did not much like or trust one another.

And after being shot into a foreign star system where the bulk of the populace landed on Icara (and were Icaran) the ESS holdouts still took a century to integrate and even afterwards we see a streak of defiance in that they have distinctly asian names and culture and also often refuse to intermarry with the "Icaran race". But sheer numbers is on the side of the Icarans as is economic strength and military power, and after heading into the stars once again they found aliens and other human empires that would be more then happy to watch them burn (or in the case of some aliens more then happy to EAT them).

So it is simple survival again, rebel against Icara maybe succeed but get eaten by an alien or absorbed by a human Empire who didn't much like your ancestors Or join Icara and live to reap the rewards.

Kind of like Russia and the US after the Soviet collapsed Russia still doesn't much LIKE us and we don't much like them but we kind of need one another for the moment.

And if you notice a little bit the Asian populace in a good part is still rather distinctive and it's own small "Empire" within the Icaran Empire. The bulk of Brandenburg, the entirety of Sparta and many other worlds are almost entirely "asiatic" in heritage. But after centuries the two cultures being forced to rely on one another have by and large merged into the single Icaran Empire.

Point 4: The Chinese have always been adept at scientific adaptation and development, hell the Japanese who were non-to bright in any comparison to the west or China figured out how to replicate firearms on their own in rather short order. The Chinese already had a basic understanding of gunpowder and rockets, and in fact were well on their way to producing firearms of their own almost in parallel to the west so if you introduce hundreds of captured Icaran weapons and I have no doubt a culture that felt threatened with it's survival would replicate it quickly.

As far as training large numbers of men the Chinese always did have the ability to raise vast armies (I beleive the Qin had over 400,000 men) and with muskets you don't much need training, which is why they were so great. Add to that the Yuan went on their own little bender of conquest and they would expand their own manpower base after a few decades.

I didn't say their replicated firearms were as good either, just copies but given Chinese population vs an invading army that had already been blooded in previous wars and overwhelming numbers of slightly inferior quality beat out Icaran tech.

Point 5: Thanks I'll fix that ASAP
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When life gives you lemons take them and squeeze them in life's eye until it gives you the oranges you asked for!

"If men build things to look like our penis such as towers and ships does that mean female achitects represent women having penis envy?"
A line that made me chuckle, I can't remember where I heard it I just know it made me laugh.

"I'm not really a slapper....I mainly punch and gouge."
Tammy Lee my kung fu instructor/sifu's daughter when asked if she ever slapped a boy for saying something nasty to her.
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Old October 12th, 2005, 11:31 AM
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Default Re: Semi-OT: The Icaran Empire Preview (the book one)

Stealth is not invisible. This is a very important point, tiny RCS (Radar Cross Section) is just that. Tiny, but still there. You just have to get closer to find/track the stealthy object. For an object lesson ask the F-117 crew shot down in the Balkans. Still, clever tech (but it will bite you later)

People would notice the big convoys traipsing off into the asteriod belt, sure the solar system is big but not that big. Sure you mine asteroids but you need a crew. And lots of materials you aren't going to get from asteroids. So you need freighters, which all the clever Icaran sensors are going to pick up. (Told you it would bite you )

If your keeping ESS and Icara still not happy (or grudging but with occasional clashes) that works alot more for me.

A flintlock is complex, as in massively so. The first mass production was called 'Armoury practice' because you needed standardised parts to build and repair at any speed. The tolerances and metallurgy needed was the results of decades, even centuries, of poking and improvement of match/wheel lock rifles. It's not just gunpowder, it's not even the metal working technology, it's the skills and equipment.

Resistance to foreign occupiers is almost human nature, unless the current regime is hated, even then the occupiers aren't liked. Rome was the lightest of imperial goverments. Pay us a levy and don't attack our troops. That was about it. The fringe benefits (roads, infrastructure in general, etc) were also great. They still weren't liked. And like all empires it declined and fell to paraphrase Gibbon. So an empire lasting millenia, that didn't face major rebellions does seem odd.

Finally, because I like to end on a joke, The underground Nazi base. So they'd be the the hollow earth Nazis not the space Nazis based on the dark side of the moon? It is very sci-fi cliche you must admit.
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Old October 14th, 2005, 09:13 AM
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Default Re: Semi-OT: The Icaran Empire Preview (the book one)

Bad AT! Bad!

Indeed the word "Crusade" is derived from "Crux" meaning "Cross" which is a symbol for Christianity. Like Hunpecked said, something along the lines of "Liberation" (or, in the case of aliens (or "Xenos") "Annihilation") would be better suited.

While reading 1984, it put me in a dark mood, but I was very happy to have read it. I can really recommend it.
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