rifles gripes

[Siddhi]

i find it extremly irritating that a 300m an ak-47 seems to have the same lethality as a stg-77 (steyer aug). i am well acquainted with both and find it completly implausible. on average i would say at 300m, the stg-77 is probably 2 or 3 times as lethal at a -47. when the stg-77 was introduced in australia they had to compleltly recalibre the ranges as it was so much more accurate than a m16a2.

it is possible o/c to simply add improved optics (10) and a firecontrol rating to each unit so equipped, but that kind of spoils the point.

[DRG]

Open MOBHack, Open the Australian OOB, go to weapon 8 and change accuracy to 6 and that should remove that "extremly irritating" minor problem.

Don

[PlasmaKrab]

That's right, how come (nearly) all assault rifles have the same accuracy and HEK value? Would it tip the balance too much to add accuracy to scoped rifles (or actually more accurate ones like the G-3, AUG, SAR-21...) or HEK to ones with heavier calibre / bigger fire volume?
Does it make these weapons too lethal? Or is it considered to be a statistical fluke or marginal effect regarding the use of these weapons on the field?

[Listy]

I have a question, why do assualt rifles with a scope get acc 6? is this some kind of special code? Like the 222Ap code?

[JaM]

Guys, Rifle weapon in SPMBT dont represent one rifle. It is acronym for all rifles in squad. In game all infantry squads gets bonus due to their training. With game mechanics it is hard to model assault rifles accuratelly, and those minor technical things dont have such overhelming impact as a training.

[Sewter]

I think that the universal rifle ratings help infantry battles to be more interesting. In SP2, one squad could eliminate a plt because of highly accurate rifles! To me, that made infantry scenarios less appealing.

[DRG]

Listy said:
I have a question, why do assualt rifles with a scope get acc 6? is this some kind of special code? Like the 222Ap code?

It's added to make the people who think the scopes make a world of difference happy that there is a slightly higher accuracy number. It makes about |*| this much difference in game terms. ( slight... I'm not saying it makes NO difference but I doubt any battles are tipped one way of the other becasue of it ) There is NO inherant "accuracy" in a rifle as measured in real combat terms. A rifle is no more or less dangerous than the man holding it and you can give a 40 year old AK to a "motivated" infantryman and he'll do all it was intended to do just as well as if he were handed a high tech plastic wonder weapon.( and he'll be able to clean it faster ) So giving an AK47 to a unit with 90 experience and morale will produce much better results than a 70 unit with a Styer. Certainly sitting all nice and comfy on a firing range you can produce tighter 10 round groups on a piece paper using a Steyer AUG than you can with an AK-47. I know, I've fired them both, but that's not how they are used in the real world. IF you aim you'll do better with the AUG at distance in single shot encounters..... IF you aim. Most times "aiming" is a luxury in combat.

Also, everyone needs to be reminded this is not a game of individual infantrymen. It's a game where you could be fighting in an area 8km x 10km with 20+ rifle companies and at that scale what we have in the game now works pretty much as intended



Don

[Shadowcougar]

If you battles get down to the rifle makes the difference. Then you have more problems that how a rifle performs.

[Listy]

( and he'll be able to clean it faster )

Sorry, what?

You clean AK's??

[Siddhi]

[quote]

It's added to make the people who think the scopes make a world of difference happy that there is a slightly higher accuracy number. It makes about |*| this much difference in game terms. ( slight... I'm not saying it makes NO difference but I doubt any battles are tipped one way of the other becasue of it ) There is NO inherant "accuracy" in a rifle as measured in real combat terms.[quote]



hmm, i'm not sure what you consider "real combat terms" to be. if you think that means firing from the hip, well, i agree that the differences diminish quite radically (although even then they are some key differences, ROF and recoil being only two). for me however "RCT" would mean using a weapon as it is intended and the basic training indicates - in case of the Stg-77 it means taking a position that mandates the use of the sight down to 80m range (where u switch to burst and dispense with the sights). this is what is used in "RCT" , both in manuvers, Bosnia, and apparently East Timor. If your argument was correct everyone would buy ak-47s.
[quote]

A rifle is no more or less dangerous than the man holding it and you can give a 40 year old AK to a "motivated" infantryman and he'll do all it was intended to do just as well as if he were handed a high tech plastic wonder weapon.( and he'll be able to clean it faster ) So giving an AK47 to a unit with 90 experience and morale will produce much better results than a 70 unit with a Styer
[quote]


agree in principle but disagree in practice - the above example is certainly wrong in my book with the exception of possible rally (pinned under fire) concerns.
[quote]
Certainly sitting all nice and comfy on a firing range you can produce tighter 10 round groups on a piece paper using a Steyer AUG than you can with an AK-47. I know, I've fired them both, but that's not how they are used in the real world. IF you aim you'll do better with the AUG at distance in single shot encounters..... IF you aim. Most times "aiming" is a luxury in combat.[quote]


hmm, i'm not sure what you consider "real combat terms" to be. if you think that means firing from the hip, well, i agree that the differences diminish quite radically (although even then they are some key differences, ROF and recoil being only two). for me however "RCT" would mean using a weapon as it is intended and the basic training indicates - in case of the Stg-77 it means taking a position that mandates the use of the sight down to 80m range (where u switch to burst and dispense with the sights). this is what is used in "RCT", both in manuvers, Bosnia, and apparently East Timor. If your argument was correct everyone would buy ak-47s.

.[quote]

Certainly sitting all nice and comfy on a firing range you can produce tighter 10 round groups on a piece paper using a Steyer AUG than you can with an AK-47..[quote]


the steyer does 4 round bursts , as it simply is full-auto 1 second squeeze. i never heard of firing continous full-auto on the range except for the SAW and SMG mods (sounds fun though)
.[quote]

IF you aim you'll do better with the AUG at distance in single shot encounters..... IF you aim. Most times "aiming" is a luxury in combat..[quote]


totally disagree, intergral to basic training. don't believe me, ask the ozzies

[quote]

Also, everyone needs to be reminded this is not a game of individual infantrymen. It's a game where you could be fighting in an area 8km x 10km with 20+ rifle companies and at that scale what we have in the game now works pretty much as intended.[quote]


i would imagine however that is a game of technology. there should be no question as to the comparison of individual rifle technology on the average combat power.