i'm a political failure!!!

dumbluck · #1 February 28th, 2001, 02:02 AM

i'm having troubles with alliances. when i do manage to get a race to give me a TA (which is a rarity in itself), they usually just get mad at me and cancel it about 5-10 turns later. what am i doing wrong?

very confused am i, oh yes!

DirectorTsaarx · #2 February 27th, 2001, 04:35 PM

Don't get too upset; in coding the AI to make it more challenging, it also became moodier; it frequently breaks treaties within a couple turns. The main reason is that many of the AI's now get angry fairly quickly. And the source of anger is generally tied to allies (!) building colonies in the AI systems, allies having ships in the AI systems, the AI noticing lots of colonizable planets in the (human) ally's system, but the (human) ally already has colonies on those planets... you get the idea. I've found that offering gifts in the first couple turns of a treaty will help get over the initial anger, and sometimes they'll maintain a treaty even when they get "murderous" towards you. BTW, offering gifts and/or tribute sometimes helps get a treaty in the first place.

UmberGryphon · #3 February 28th, 2001, 12:14 AM

quote:
Originally posted by DirectorTsaarx:
And the source of anger is generally tied to... the AI noticing lots of colonizable planets in the (human) ally's system, but the (human) ally already has colonies on those planets....

One might wonder how the AI ever got happy enough with you to offer you a treaty if it was coveting your planets. The answer is that most of the AIs (14 of the 20 default races) covet more of their allies' planets than they do of their enemies' planets. This seems totally backwards to me, but it's true. So as soon as you become an ally, they start lusting after more of your planets, which makes them angrier.

Example: the Cue Cappa covet 10% of allied planets and 0% of enemy planets. In one game, the CueCappa and I were both partners of the Praetorians, who had ships through half my empire 'cause they were at war with the Norak and the shortest path was across my empire. The Cue Cappa and I had no treaty, they offered me a trade alliance, I accepted, and 4 turns later they were murderous and at war with me ('cause they were suddenly coveting 10% of half my empire, which they could see via the Praetorians).

The easiest way to get treaties is either (a) to send a scout far away to a race that can't see any of your planets, or (b) talk to the Eee, Phong, Praetorian or Toltayan empires, who don't covet.

mottlee · #4 February 28th, 2001, 06:15 AM

LOL at that point I just go about and KILL-EM all!

jowe01 · #5 February 28th, 2001, 12:15 PM

Well, "Kill'em all" is an option, but in my eyes, this threat is another indicator that the diplomacy/attitude system needsm a major overhaul. "Murderous" allies and "brotherly" ennemies steadfastly refusing to maken peace - sorry, that always sounds ridiculous.

Also, in my first 1.27 game, I am now at war with all known AIs (I am not MEE). Some of them only encountered me once and since then are at least 2 systems away. Neither me nor them send any ships. How the heck do they "scan" my planets to get angry ?

[This message has been edited by jowe01 (edited 28 February 2001).]

dumbluck · #6 March 19th, 2001, 08:54 AM

sorry its been so long since i replied. I have a couple of questions, though:
-What does MEE stand for?

==========================================
One might wonder how the AI ever got happy enough with you to offer you a treaty if it was coveting your planets. The answer is that most of the AIs (14 of the 20 default races) covet more of their allies' planets than they do of their enemies' planets. This seems totally backwards to me, but it's true. So as soon as you become an ally, they start lusting after more of your planets, which makes them angrier.

Example: the Cue Cappa covet 10% of allied planets and 0% of enemy planets. In one game, the CueCappa and I were both partners of the Praetorians, who had ships through half my empire 'cause they were at war with the Norak and the shortest path was across my empire. The Cue Cappa and I had no treaty, they offered me a trade alliance, I accepted, and 4 turns later they were murderous and at war with me ('cause they were suddenly coveting 10% of half my empire, which they could see via the Praetorians).

The easiest way to get treaties is either (a) to send a scout far away to a race that can't see any of your planets, or (b) talk to the Eee, Phong, Praetorian or Toltayan empires, who don't covet.
=========================================

My problem with this is that I AM sending scouts far away. Like 3-4 system between the AI and any of my colonized systems. I do claim systems w/ breathable planets in them, even before I manage to get them colonized. Would the AI covet these systems, too? Even if (to my knowledge) they have never even seen these systems yet!!

My gifts and tributes (even of systems w/ their breathable planets in it) generally just get refused. I'm almost tempted to completely ignore the diplomacy aspects of the game. They do me no good anyway; in fact, it usually hurts me when an otherwise friendly AI suddenly declares war on me simply because I was foolish enough to accept their treaty.

Which is sad, because other than this miserably executed diplomacy system, I love this game (what little i've played it. not much free time lately). Can anyone tell me if I'm wrong? SHOULD I simply ignore all requests for treaties, or is there some way to get them to like me?

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