Marignon under water?

[Merry Jolkar]

What are the options for Marignon to get under water? All of the artifacts that would allow them to get underwater seem to require 3+ water levels, and the spells to travel over water or teleport are super high level. Is Marignon stranded on an island if he can't find an ally willing to trade/give him artefacts?
Thanks,
Merry

[Arryn]

Remember that water mages can take 1 troop per level of water magic with them into the water. Not as effective as items that confer water-breathing, but it's better than nothing. There are also mercenaries that can enter water, as well as certain types of undead.

[Merry Jolkar]

Thanks for the advice, Arryn and Gandalf. The Marignon player I'm trying to help has expanded into the water, and can build tritons and shamblers, but they don't form a very strong force, and he can't recruit many units because the sea provinces lack many resources. Does Marignon even have any water mages? Any way he can teleport his whole army across the ocean (other than blessing of Thetis' Blessing, which is too expensive at this point)?
Thanks,
Merry

[Cainehill]

Marignon can get W1 mages with their random (unless that's sorcery only), which lets them forge water bracelets and get to W2. Past that, they'd need another item they can't forge - staff of elemental mastery, ring of wizardry, etc. At least the randoms _do_ let them get into the sea.

As far as teleporting armies across the sea - sure. Easy for base Marignon, which I presume is the one involved. Marignon can get S3 through a random; a simple Starshine Skullcap takes that to S4, and viola - Gateway. Grand Masters even have a decent leadership, especially for a mage - 65 troops.

And getting to S4 via the Starshine means the national mage can forge a Ring of Sorcery, and then a Ring of Wizardry, getting that water mage to W3.

So - Marignon has less trouble than many (Ulm, NE Pan, and others with no randoms _or_ water magic) and far less problems moving entire armies across oceans than most nations and themes. Similarly, Marignon can get rings of wizardry with national mages, where many if not most need either the pretender to do it, or a _very_ lucky indepedent find.

[Cohen]

You can gateway only in a province with a friendly lab ^^

I'd simply advice for forge rings of water breathing, prepare a/some good fighters and send him into the tritons.
Usually a Banelord is good, and you should probably have Death on your pretender.

[Cainehill]

You can gateway only in a province with a friendly lab ^^

Co-hen, you can only cast _most_ spells in a province with a friendly lab. If you mean that you can only gateway into a friendly lab, well duh. His question wasn't "How do I attack a province with my army if it's across the ocean", it was "how do I teleport my army across". Given that the only spells that allow an army to attack long distance are somewhat limitted (except Astral Travel, S5, Thaumaturgy 9), Gateway fulfils his question.

The death spell can severely damage your own troops, Faery Trod only goes forest-to-forest, and neither is readily available to base Marignon because they don't get high nature or death very easily.

On the other hand, if he _does_ get a toehold on land across the ocean, it takes one turn to build a lab, and he can get his nice Marignonite army over there, which he otherwise couldn't get through the ocean.

Or, he can forge a ring of sorcery to go with the Starshine Skullcap on that S3 Grand Master, and research towards Astral Travel. In the short run, it's probably much more efficient for him to get a toehold, build that lab, and Gateway in a bunch of KotC, crossbows, and whatnot to reinforce the toehold.

I'd simply advice for forge rings of water breathing, prepare a/some good fighters and send him into the tritons.
Usually a Banelord is good, and you should probably have Death on your pretender.

He already _has_ provinces with tritons, he just doesn't think the tritons he can recruit are very good, nor can they readily go up on land for him. And given that his game is in progress, how does "You should have some death magic on your pretender" help him at this point?

The game is already in progress, he already has taken some water provinces, and he wants to get his _army_ across the ocean.

[Gandalf Parker]

Some mercs can go into the water. If you find Jade Amazons they can go in. Look along the coast and you will often find a province which will allow you to recruit units which can go in. Remember: you only have to get ahold of ONE water province. Then you can build up and expand from there using the units you can make there.