Question A0 HQ/Force Morale/Off-map Comm

Felix Nephthys · #1 February 26th, 2021, 09:41 PM

After posting in another thread, HQ unit for AI run side, I thought I would make a new post altogether as I have questions.

My question has to do with the A0 unit and the consequences of it's loss during a battle. The general consensus is that when the A0 unit is destroyed the effects are...

1: Force morale takes a big hit making it much easier to rout and destroy the enemy units.

2: Communications to off-map units are affected, making it much more likely that you will not be able to call for support because those units will be out of contact and won't show up on the list in the bombardment menu.

My question with those points in mind is if those two things are actually happening? Thinking back on it I'm really not so sure.

For the force morale issue, is the loss of the A0 unit in fact causing a morale drop or is it being confused with the fact that the force may already have reached the point where it has 50% or more of it's units destroyed or retreating/routed?

And, for the communications issue, is this actually being caused by the loss of the A0 unit, or is it just a run of bad luck and we simply associate that bad luck as being connected to the loss of the A0?

From my own experience as I stated in the other thread, I've lost my own A0 unit before to stupid mistakes I've made and still ended up doing well and I haven't had communications issues be any worse with or without the loss of my A0 unit.

That all being said, what do you think?

Imp · #2 February 26th, 2021, 09:59 PM

I think it works as stated

Off map communications are not disastrous they just become worse you can live with them.

Morale is another matter it makes things very hard especially because more often than not it happens around or just after the hit for 50%.

As this is MBT start a battle hit your HQ with a large CM barrage to destroy it then wait a couple of turns before engaging the enemy preferably with the odd unit out on their own like a scout or ATGM team.
Save & play both games from there.

Better still your opponent should be the same country as you.

Aeraaa · #3 February 27th, 2021, 05:25 AM

Regarding morale:

Morale in the game in not affected by a single factor and thus HQ loss is not the only decisive moment. I don't know the code behind the game but let's say that 1% loss in points in your force results in 2% loss in global morale, while losing the HQ results in 10% morale loss. And also assume that when morale drops from 100% to 0% the force routs and the battle automatically ends. You can see that even though the HQ is by far the most devastating percentage wise in terms of losses, you still need to kill 45% of the enemy force to force them to rout.

It is a bit like the Total War games as an other example. Losing the general causes the biggest morale drop, but morale is affected by many factors such as if you are being outnumbered, if you units believe they are losing the battle vs their opponents in front of them, if your force is being outflanked, if your opponent uses morale breaking weapons (elephants, gunpowder weapons etc) and of course if you lose too many men among other as well. When there are so many things going on, you can see that losing the general may not be decisive.

PS: I've included only casualties as the other factor in WinSPMBT because I don't exactly remember all the factors that affect morale. Some that come to mind are if your troops walk over area containing friendly wrecks, if you walk over terrain on fire or even worse, attacked by flame weapons and sometimes if you order infantry to close assault tanks. I am not sure if these things affect global morale though.

Mobhack · #4 February 27th, 2021, 06:40 AM

Lost HQ contributes to poorer morale, but the main fact is that the HQ element counts as several units lost (not 1) when calculating the percentage of units lost for the force broken calcultion.

You dont need to now the exact numbers - but the HQ being killed is worth more than 1 element when totting up the retreaters, runners etc

zovs66 · #5 February 27th, 2021, 10:28 PM

So my question is this:

What would happen if I gave the AI 2 A0 HQ units?

Say A0 and then changing B0 to a HQ.

I may test and use this if it helps the AI. Gives me some devious ideas.

Imp · #6 February 28th, 2021, 04:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zovs66

So my question is this:

What would happen if I gave the AI 2 A0 HQ units?

Say A0 and then changing B0 to a HQ.

I may test and use this if it helps the AI. Gives me some devious ideas.

My guess if its coded is you now have 2 chances to give the AI a big morale hit instead of one. It could just confuse the game instead.

DRG · #7 February 28th, 2021, 08:38 AM

It's A0 that's the HQ.... NOT the UC HQ.

You are more likely to confuse the players more than the game AI

Mobhack · #8 February 28th, 2021, 08:39 AM

There shall be one HQ unit, and it will be the A0 in any force. Anything else is undetermined in the AI code.

As Don said while I was posting - the A0 is the HQ for the AI regardless of unit type.

But by all means, try it and see what happens, if you feel like it.

Karagin · #9 February 28th, 2021, 11:09 PM

I did try that, editing in a second HQ unit in a scenario...I didn't see anything really change as far as morale or OM Fire once the A0 unit was destroyed.

Mobhack · #10 March 1st, 2021, 01:19 AM

That is because the second HQ is just another unit, nothing msgic about it since it is not the A0.

The second HQ may act cautious like the A0 from its unit class, but it has no side benefits - it does not rally nearby units (its not A0) it may be a bit better than a regular line unit as a FOO (but those arty points may be granted to A0 not any old HQ element).

It gets its bonuses from being the A0 and from being a HQ element. Extra HQ elements are basically worthless.