CIWS/VIRSS Vs ATGM/AGM

[scorpio_rocks]

A couple of quick questions about the interaction of vehicle missile counter-measures and missiles / LGBs (neither is a huge problem...):


1. Timing/order of resolution - any chance to have the CIWS/smoke animation and the success or fail message play when the missile reaches it's target rather than on launch?


2. If a missile/bomb is successfully countered (especially if destroyed by active systems) should it still explode with it's usual area of effect? (I have had, on a number of occasions, another vehicle or even the original target destroyed by the HE burst!)

[Mobhack]

It works as it works.

As to HE effect in the target hex - if VIRSS blinds it, it will still hit somewhere near the tank and go bang on hitting the ground or whatever. (I think VIRSS sometimes reduces hit chance to 1% but its been a decade since I looked at that code, or more).

If a CIWS destroys it it'll also tend to go bang, as the CIWS can be an explosive device as well (in fact I can't think of any vulcan type CIWS, though a rifle calibre one was experimented with for Chieftain in the 70s).

So not a good thing to be infantry near any tank being engaged with ATGM, or that's merrily popping off explosive charges to save itself. That is why tanks with ERA don't carry infantry as well - ERA firing would result in "people pate" for any tank riders.

cheers
Andy

[jivemi]

Originally Posted by Mobhack

It works as it works.

As to HE effect in the target hex - if VIRSS blinds it, it will still hit somewhere near the tank and go bang on hitting the ground or whatever. (I think VIRSS sometimes reduces hit chance to 1% but its been a decade since I looked at that code, or more).


cheers
Andy

Just had an incident where an HJ-8 attacked a K-2. The message said that the EW defeated the missile, yet the missile struck home anyway and blew up the tank on a front hit (can't recall hull or turret). Is this supposed to happen once in awhile?

[DRG]

Yes it will. There are variables built into both the missile and missile defence code that can sometimes result in what was classed as a defeat of the attack turning into something more than that.......in a RL analogy from WW2 you may have shot down the Kamikaze in flames but it still hit the deck of the carrier. Or a board game / miniatures analogy you rolled a 10 for the missile defence then rolled snake-eyes or boxcars for the final result so even though technically you defeated the attack the missile still did damage but in this case enough damage to destroy the target vehicle.

[Wdll]

Originally Posted by DRG

Yes it will. There are variables built into both the missile and missile defence code that can sometimes result in what was classed as a defeat of the attack turning into something more than that.......in a RL analogy from WW2 you may have shot down the Kamikaze in flames but it still hit the deck of the carrier. Or a board game / miniatures analogy you rolled a 10 for the missile defence then rolled snake-eyes or boxcars for the final result so even though technically you defeated the attack the missile still did damage but in this case enough damage to destroy the target vehicle.

I don't know why but this paragraph just made me feel warm and happy inside.

[Mobhack]

There still is a 1% or so chance for the missile to hit - nothing is ever a cert.

[Imp]

You can indeed get a rare hit after it is defeated, as Andy mentioned says 1% chance.
Only difference I can see between the 2 systems is CIWS seems (not tested) to have a slightly better chance of stopping the missile.
Both seem to stop older (less accurate?) systems more frequently than new ones that can get through.

[DRG]

In the game, as in real life S**t happens. You could be the best-trained commando/ SF on the planet and a kid with a .22 could get lucky. If it happens too often ...well that's a problem that may need a tweak... but once in a while is perfectly normal game behaviour that has been coded to allow the occasional one in a million "who would have thunk it ?" result. I just related a story from SP1 to Andy in regards to a slight code change that I think I mentioned on the forums in the past but here it is again...

My one outstanding memory of playing a WW2 campaign in SP1 was one I played as the German ..... I had carefully upgraded my force so that by the end of 1944 I had all the "really good stuff" ( well as much of it as you could get in SP1 ).... The first battle of 1945 was January playing against the USA. About 1/4 way into the game.....feeling cocky and doing well....... the AI unleash a hell storm of fighter-bombers..... twin engine B-25's and lots of rocket firing P-47's etc etc.... by the time it was done with me, my carefully husband core was decimated... I was lucky enough to have a save so I played it out again twice more and twice more the flying monkeys from hell eviscerated my panzers..... I have never seen the AI do anything like that again since. It was a truly humbling experience and why I love the game

[zovs66]

flying monkeys from hell eviscerated my panzers

Vonderbar! Vonderbar!

Oh, that was excellent!