Congo 1964

[Miketee10022]

Hi - I noticed there is no flag for the Congo in 1964, nor any OOB associated with Congo. Given how much combat has occurred there since 1960 (and is still going on today!) I think it makes sense to add the Congo to the overall Force Mix of SP MBT. As an example, the US, instead of invading S. Vietnam in '64-'65 was seriously considering putting its weight behind a full scale invasion of Congo. And then, of course, there was the Stanleyville hostage rescue in '64. Yes, there is the Dragon Rouge scenario in SP MBT but it is not terribly accurate.

Just a thought...and a question: Any chance that in the next version of SP MBT there will be a Congolese OOB and flag?

[DRG]

None whatsoever.


Don

[Miketee10022]

OK - thank you for the clarity.

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

I thought yesterday afternoon I'd provide a different answer until I hit the "search" button instead of the "spell check" at the end, the result wasn't good, don't hit the "search" button. So for GP the issues a little more complex. First there are only 7 OOBs left open, these are being used for R&D game and software testing etc. The other issue many of the OOBs are rapidly approaching "critical mass" with having ~50 or less slots (U.S. and Russia are at less than 30 slots now.). This summer I went back to school and learned some things about the game. In general terms once something is entered in the game in mass it's very difficult to remove it. I'm probably the biggest proponent of air power in the game (In the sense that I post on it often.) as is also well known I see this as truly the best Combined Arms game out there. So when the issue was raised a couple of years ago I offered the solution of removing a whole "class" of equipment the Fighter jets (From about the early 60's when fighter bomber variants became more prevalent to the present and future inclusions. This would not have affected smaller nations that depend on them for all aspects of an air war.) as in the case of the U.S. and Russia I believe would've freed up around 60+ slots each. As I found out this would have been a large project involving around 10-15 OOBs, removal from all the campaigns and scenarios and the affect it would have on those in designing the aforementioned and any future mods so yes there are software issues here as well.
We have including the one for 2013 a total of 9 patches to go (Need 2021 to include equipment that will come online in 2020 such as the F-35 for some if at all among others.) that's game world limited for now. Real World though new equipment will still be made available, the major push is to extend the life cycle of existing equipment and improve them. At the current rate back to both worlds is the U.S. and Russian OOB's will be filled in three years or patches if you will. We all know to add a piece of equipment there's a slot taken, the more variants added the same is true, change a piece of equipment (Armament, Sensors etc.) you could again be using several slots to accommodate those changes i.e. all current USA/USMC ABRAMS to get a new Main Gun THAT'S ROUGHLY ~12 SLOTS just for the USA!!
What to do? Well Don posted when I first submitted my Fighter removal suggestion that Andy and him are trying to find a solution so I leave it to them. For my part I'm not going to submit Air Superiority Fighters that think they're Fighter Bombers as well, they're not as most have inadequate ground attack sensors if any at all to the larger countries that have more then adequate Fighter Bomber capabilities and Level Bombers. Since the F-35 and PAK/FA aren't operational yet I would love to see them go. The F-22 is entrenched but it's a much better jet anyway that's as we speak getting much better all around, don't take my word for check the web.
I'll narrow my focus as well in MRAPS, Utility type attack vehicles as well. That's all I can do well, I won't bother about TRUCKS ether!?!
That's the broad general situation and the dilemma for us "equipment folks", designers and HQ in Canada and Scotland.

All the best to everyone and for the many others please have a safe and Happy Thanksgiving!!

Regards,
Pat

[Miketee10022]

Thanks for the added comment and in-depth essay as to the complexities of adding weapons systems to SP MBT!

[troopie]

In one of the Red Orbats there are Simbas for the 1960s Congo. The ANC of the 1960s was organised similarly to the Belgian army, save with older weapons, fewer heavy weapons and poorer discipline. The Mercenaries were organised variously, the 4 and 5 Commando IIRC folowed British procedure, 6 Commando followed French procedure, 14 Commando followed Belgian procedure.

Official guerrilla TOEs should not be taken too seriously. Guerrillas, here the Simbas, Kasais, Katangese tend to be armed with what they can get from whoever. The Simbas did have some older Chinese weapons.

troopie

[Warhero]

Well how about using Red or Green for Congo (maybe with right flag)?

[Suhiir]

I'll 2nd wulfir on that.
Took me nearly two years to do my revised USMC OOB (obviously not working 40 hours a week on it).
I'd say best guess is somewhere around 3-500 hours of work went into it. And I have never bothered to do a revised pick list for the OOB (that'd be maybe another 50 hours or so).

[Miketee10022]

Wulfir and Suhir,

thanks again for your input and comments. It does sound like a rather daunting task. In lieu of creating an entire Congolese OOB for the entire history of modern Congo (ie from 1960 on to today), what I might do is to create a couple of scenarios that cover some key battles in the country in the period 1960-1968, concentrating on the period 1964-65. This will likely mean taking various red and green OOB's for that period and tweaking accordingly (with the possibility of adding a Congolese flag if it can be done).

If Wulfir is referring to the siege of Jadotville, it is a battle both my friend (the historian and scenario designer) and I would like to ultimately do for SP MBT. For those who do not know about this battle, please read up on it. It has an epic quality to it. I hold the Irish troops who fought there in extremely high esteem!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siege_of_Jadotville

[wulfir]

Originally Posted by Miketee10022

This will likely mean taking various red and green OOB's for that period and tweaking accordingly

Cool! If you need any help, don't be afraid to post.

Originally Posted by Miketee10022

If Wulfir is referring to the siege of Jadotville,

Jadotville is one episode, but I'm also interested in the Irish units that participated in other areas - IIRC they had some older type of APC (American?) and I'm not certain what kind of small arms they had...