How do you test stuff (or, is ethical behavior dead)?

[JonBrave]

I keep reading about people "testing things out". Just how do you do that in this game, please?

Early in the manual it told me about it had an "unusual" save game. As I understand it: it only allows you to have one save game (per game). In other games, typically you could save after each turn under different name, and restore as you pleased. In this one, when saved, there's "no going back" (and there's no auto-save). I assume that it only saves if you click "Save & Quit"(?). So...

I guess you must save, then try something next turn, then not-save-but-reload to get back where you were?

My question there is: is that "ethical"? Is that what you are intended to do? Or, is saving/loading only for switching off, and you mustn't reload to try things?

If you do try something and save as turns go by, then your old position is gone and you cannot go back, right?

I only play SP, so MP is not what this question is about. Thanks.

[iRFNA]

It's copying a folder, not dissecting live babies.

[JonBrave]

Originally Posted by iRFNA

It's copying a folder, not dissecting live babies.

That made me laugh. I trust/hope that was the intended spirit.

I want to play it as designed. If the devs went to the trouble of coding and documenting it that way. I give hours of my life to this game, doesn't it matter how you play?

[Doo]

Try this:

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/showthread.php?t=39744

Its a program that backs up each turn file allowing you to reload past turns.

You could do this manually but whats the point of having a top of the line computer if you have to do the work for it? I should say I have not used this program, I guess too many rogue-likes have instilled a fearlessness towards death

[LDiCesare]

Actually, I think many people test MP strategies in SP.
I usually start a few games and see how they evolve, because I'm more interested in testing a strategy than a particular tactic.
I've sometimes backed up games to check the differences between sending a thug with a shield, without, with a brand, without, with both, or naked, and compare the results.
There's nothing unethical in that. I mean, even NetHack has a debug mode made for testing things.

[thejeff]

It depends on what kind of testing you mean. Most often on these forums it refers to one of two things, either a factual question or testing a strategy for MP.
The first is simple, start up a new game, create the situation and see what happens. Usually you use a mod to avoid having to spend time researching etc. (There's a Debug Mod around that makes all spells level 0, and a cheap wish, GoR and an ubercaster).
The Murdering Winter question could be easily tested this way.

The other generally involves playing out the expansion phase for various tweaks of your theoretical strategy. For anything much beyond that the AI doesn't really match the MP experience enough to be useful.

Neither of these really require reloading save games.

For testing particular tactics, as LDiCesare suggests, reloading is useful. And not that hard to do, just copy the savegame. I've done it for some tests. And I keep meaning to set up an automatic version so I can try to capture a couple of bugs.

Personally, even for SP, I'd keep it to actual tests, separate from the actual game I'm playing. Otherwise it's too easy to try a tactic, have it fail, reload and try a different one, it works so keep going. And never actually lose a real fight.
The game isn't designed for that and will lose all challenge if you play it that way. There's nothing wrong with games that are designed for that style of play. If you had to start over from the beginning every time you died in most FPS games it would be boring. Games like this (and Nethack for that matter) are designed for replayability. Every game is different, so it stays interesting.

[Gandalf Parker]

Originally Posted by JonBrave

My question there is: is that "ethical"? Is that what you are intended to do? Or, is saving/loading only for switching off, and you mustn't reload to try things?

Good question. And thank you for asking.
I think I can say that the devs do not mind if you do it to test things.

Im in the beta test group. During beta testing many things were brought up such as backups, restores, autosaves, autorestores, screensaves, movie grabs, alarms, timers, notepads, music library players, etc etc. In general it was their decision not to bog down the game with things that third party or user created programs could easily handle.

And in game saves there was a general feeling of not wanting to make it too easy. Some of the game was meant to be explored and experimented. So not a big interest in rolling back turns to try again.

But dont take it as the devs trying to say you shouldnt. They really arent like that. They didnt make an effort to make it impossible. They just seemed to feel that they didnt have to make it easier.

There is also the factor that its a Linux game that is ported to Windows and Mac. In linux the method of handling restores seems much more obvious than it does in windows.

[JonBrave]

All excellent answers. Thanks as ever guys.

[Calahan]

Originally Posted by Gandalf Parker

Good question. And thank you for asking.
I think I can say that the devs do not mind if you do it to test things.

Thanks for that Gandalf. As it's really good to know that the devs don't mind what I do with my own files on my own computer.

Since I know for certain that I've lost endless amounts of sleep over the past few years, and paid for many expensive therapy sessions, due to the persistent feeling of unease I had that copying some save files for a computer game from one folder to another on my home PC, would result in a crack Interpol enforcement squad crashing through my windows and arresting my for crimes against humanity. So it's a real weight off my mind to know that the chances of that happening now seem to have been reduced.

I will sleep well tonight that's for sure.

[Gandalf Parker]

Im afraid that I took his question as a serious one. Dont worry Callahan. If you had asked it I would have known it was sarcasm and not bothered to answer. Or was it that I didnt answer in the accepted sarcasm mode? Im sorry. I thought I had waited long enough to give you a chance to make a response like you did.
Im working on it. Really.