MP Game experience

[Korwin]

with big maps and difficult or very difficult research.

Good? Bad?
Link to an game thread?

[Doo]

http://forums.somethingawful.com/sho...0&pagenumber=1

http://forums.somethingawful.com/sho...0&pagenumber=1

[Korwin]

I know those, but they dont have the settings on difficult or very difficult research, or do they?

[Gandalf Parker]

I cant think of the names of the games specifically. Maybe later I can dig up some threads. But as a lover of big maps (really REALLY big maps) I do tend to notice big-map games.

If I remember right complaints tend to be
A) people quitting at the end due to micromanagement
B) people who dont like that the end-game is decided by magic instead of armies
C) certain favorite nations have balancing points which make their use and preferred strategies very difficult on large maps

I can see all of the points but wouldnt consider them to be game killers. Some people hate that someone has a "win" by outlasting those who cant handle micromanagement but the argument works just as well against army or sc wins in small games. And Dom3 is designed to go from army to research to magic for deciding the one god. And personally I like seeing at least some big-map games because they help mediate some of the "everyone knows" caused by so many games being played the same way on the same maps. Some nations have strengths and strategies that only work well with large games.

HOWEVER some things you might add to your consideration...

1) Maps with lots of chokepoints or limited battlefronts can cut down on micromanagement.

2) Maps that are NI or PI (no independents or partial independents) also helps cut MM

3) If your interest is in taking giant armies all the way to the end then you might consider that Kristoffer created 2 mods early on which cut off all magic at level 4 or at level 6.

I wouldnt recommend that all Dom3 games be played on large maps but I think they have their following

[Korwin]

I would like to try an BIG map game.
But I fear that with normal research you allready have the important research goals at the end of the expansion phase.

So I wonder if there are guidelines X provinces per player y total provinces = makes sense to change to difficult or very difficult research.

Originally Posted by Gandalf Parker

A) people quitting at the end due to micromanagement
B) people who dont like that the end-game is decided by magic instead of armies
C) certain favorite nations have balancing points which make their use and preferred strategies very difficult on large maps

The only point I can feel with is A.

Originally Posted by Gandalf Parker

HOWEVER some things you might add to your consideration...

1) Maps with lots of chokepoints or limited battlefronts can cut down on micromanagement.

Suggestions?

Originally Posted by Gandalf Parker

2) Maps that are NI or PI (no independents or partial independents) also helps cut MM

I plan on using the Assimilation Mod, so there would be a way to diversify your magic.

Originally Posted by Gandalf Parker

3) If your interest is in taking giant armies all the way to the end then you might consider that Kristoffer created 2 mods early on which cut off all magic at level 4 or at level 6.

No my interest

Originally Posted by Gandalf Parker

I wouldnt recommend that all Dom3 games be played on large maps but I think they have their following

+1

[Gandalf Parker]

My suggestion on map guidelines is to pretty much ignore the number of provinces. The real factor on how the game plays out is how many provinces are between the players capitals. So Provinces per player is far more important than how big the map is in total. Some "small" maps can be huge with few players and even the maximum map (1500 provinces) is only a medium to large game if you fill all the nation slots. The game itself (n the Dom3 settings) defines Small/Medium/Large maps as being 10/15/20 provinces per player so a very different game would be anything less than 10 or more than 20 each.

Having NI or PI maps is best created. Choose a map and then run it thru a script to turn it into an NI or PI version. I have a PI map on my site if you want to play test one.
http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/showthread.php?t=46306

Tower maps can limit battlefronts. But in general I consider them best for newbie games to insure that everyone only has 2 enemy neighbors for most of the game.

If you look at the maps I generate daily, they tend to provide large areas with lots of chokepoints. Mostly preferred by Solo players but do tend to get a good amount of use in MP games also.
http://www.dom3minions.com/RandomizedMaps.htm
If you dont like any of those, they recreate each day. I also have a "keepers" directory of ones I liked and set aside. Or its easy to edit a script for whatever settings and color preferences you like to generate you a catalog of possibles. It usually takes about 2 hours to run one.

There are maps done by other people who have specifically created styles that limit battlefronts. Such as everyone starting in fairly separated areas that meet in the middle of the map. But those are mostly for competition style games of 6-8 players.

[Squirrelloid]

Large maps lead to excess tediousness, which makes late game annoying *even when you're winning*.

They also tend to be large enough that large factions arise which are balanced in power and you get this endgame stalemate where no one can accomplish anything decisive. This doesn't tend to happen on reasonably sized maps (imo, ~12 players tops, no more than 180 provinces). (I have seen it happen in a 12 player game though, but its rarer, and it seems less likely the fewer players you have. I consider 8 players on 100-120 provinces to be ideal).

Finally, people get annoyed at the excessive unbalancing influence leavers have on the game, as this increases with size. On the one hand, a smaller fraction of the game's players border an early leaver, meaning the advantage gained by being next to a leaver is much more lopsided in favor of a small fraction of the players. On the other hand, the tedium and length of the game leads to more lategame leavers, which leads to rather boring 'grab the leavers stuff' gameplay, and tends to be to the advantage of turtlers since they are less likely to be in a war, and therefore have more free material to snag lands that are relatively undefended and for which no reprisal will be forthcoming. (non-turtling players ability to commit forces will be limited by the need to at least defend against the forces of those players they are at war with).

[Korwin]

@Squirrelloid:
So your advise is: Turtle and wait for the AI in your neighborhood.

Sounds like an plan.
I'll keep it in mind.

@Gandalf Parker
Thanks for the link *send himself the link*.

[TheConway]

Of course, the big question is whether you can get enough people to sign up for it.

[rabelais]

I've only survived long enough in huge games to have data on stalling out. Both were pre CBM 1,6 so YMMV. Comfortzone worked well, until even 74 hours between turns wasnt enough to do all my blood MM. Got a sub. Cleveland ran an excellent game though (27,51,74 hr intervals were key) Maybe with 1.71 MM would be reduced. The other game devolved into wish spamming. And raiding, Nobody dared hang around long enough to take a castle, because of the teleporting/remote mayhem. It was fun, but futile.

Suggest minimal MM (n+3) hour intervals and liberal delays if needed.