End game diversity mod

[sansanjuan]

The "vote" thread got me thinking (unusual)..

I really like the new end game diversity mod. It's been out long enough that others may have comments too. Suddenly decent mid/late game summons for non-death nations. My experience is still early. Anyone gone late game with it? How did it compare to the classic tart factory end game?
ssj

[PriestyMan]

it has added a whole new dynamic to the lategame i would say. for example in the Troubling Times game on the faerun map, several nations have or could have tarts, but they are only one aspect to their arsenal, and are comparable to ember lords as sc, but shishis, zmeys, wendigos, and asynja are all seen across the map. its a very intersting game. i think the EDM is one of the best mods to come out in terms of improving gameplay since.... well cbm i guess

[Duncan_Frost]

I love the idea of the mod, since one of the main draws of Dom3 for me was the promise of '1000+ units!' and then it turns out only about 20 of them get used in the end-game. So having more diversity is a great thing!

The only problem is, I really dislike the sprites

[Redeyes]

My complaint is that it moves the game even more towards summons; national troops, and even independents, are underutilized.

I'm still out on if it's well balanced or not, but I really think it adds to the game.

[Gandalf Parker]

Well it is an EndGame mod. The Dom game was meant to go from armies to magic. But I dont worry about balance or game "fixes" . I like that it adds to the game. BTW There is also an earlier Elementals EndGame mod.

I like playing solo games with SingleAge, Mytheology and Immortal Pretenders and Nova Deus (more gods), Worthy and Epic (more heroes), CPCS (more spells) the Magic Sites mod (more sites), Elemental End Game and End Game Mod (more bigger monsters). And then maybe fill the nation slots from 73-95 with modded nations.
AND THEN RUN THRU THE CHAOS PROGRAM MUHAhahahahahaa!

[llamabeast]

Ooh cool, a feedback thread!

I'm very pleased that a lot of people seem to like the mod and it's become quite widely used. Oddly I feel that I haven't heard that much about people's experiences with it, so any feedback is very welcome. Balance thoughts are great, but I'd also love to hear any little stories people have about using the summons. Even "I summoned a Zmey, and it did a great job of killing Helheim's armies, until finally he took it down with a specially kitted Hangadrott" or something is really lovely to read for a modmaker!

[Baalz]

Originally Posted by llamabeast

Ooh cool, a feedback thread!

I'm very pleased that a lot of people seem to like the mod and it's become quite widely used. Oddly I feel that I haven't heard that much about people's experiences with it, so any feedback is very welcome. Balance thoughts are great, but I'd also love to hear any little stories people have about using the summons. Even "I summoned a Zmey, and it did a great job of killing Helheim's armies, until finally he took it down with a specially kitted Hangadrott" or something is really lovely to read for a modmaker!

I prophetized a Grendlekin with a N8/E4 blessing and GoH up, gave him a ring of regen (and full other gear as well) totaling 360 points of regen on 1440 hps in dom 10. Armor of souls + MR charm = 32 MR with a 29 protection. I'm considering empowering him in nature which will give him even more regen and more importantly elemental fortitude to bring him around to just about unkillable. This dude laughs off multiple gifts from heaven hits in a round!

I've also used several cyclopses quite economically. Same game and blessing, shrouds of the battle saint + messenger boots, then send them out with earthpower + fireshield + phoenix pyre, they're pretty darn nasty at clearing non-scs. Waded through a bit over a thousand LA Ermorian undead with 3 or 4 of them, though disintegrate spam did ruin my day a few turns later.

[TheConway]

The mod is pretty cool, but tbh there will never be a replacement for tarts until/unless they are no longer the most efficient way to diversify. Reducing the paths on Asynjas, Krakens, Cyclops, and Rocs was a step backward IMO, as in order to truly provide an alternative to tarts, the summons need to at least provide some diversity.

[Finalgenesis]

Agree with Conway.

Judging from the reduction of paths on the EDM stuff, I think the intention isn't actually to provide an alternative to tartar endgame but rather just to give more options for mid - midlate games, and choices for non-D gem summonable SCs. Content wise, more options and outlet for other gem type is a great thing, even if they can't compete with tarts.

Tartars are a one size fit all answer, they have huge toughness to SC, but most importantly their godly pathing, they can SC, ritual, forge, battlecast with equal aplomb and versatility. Whereas EDM summons are usually focused on SCing, their light focused magic path is designed to give them just enough to self buff and SC, and even the higher end EDM SCs can't beat the many viable combat pathed (much deeper pathing) tartarians, or either lack their mobility.

Looking at it from the angle that EDM's isn't about giving competitive alternative to Tarts but possible options for other gem types, it's a great mod.

[Jack_Trowell]

The problem for me is that I think that Tartarians are too cheap and should not be used as reference.

For me this mod feels like if we had "resolved" the gem generators problem by modding (if it was possible) more of them so each player can make lots of them with whatever gems/path the got.

I Think that elemental royalty and other uniques should be the base inspiration for SC chassis: if it is non unique, make it eitheir weaker, or cost more (50+ gem for a correct SC chassis)

Such a mod would means increasing the cost of tartarians *greatly*.

The problem is that the spell is so cheap because it is supposed to take into account the problems with tartarians:
- shattered soul
- start with afflictions
- you get one random unit among several, you cannot choose the one you really need or want
- often start as a unit, so you need to cast Gift of Reason to get a commander

The last one if one of the main problems: with GoR, you need to add a N gems cost to the tartarian (as well as the mage-time of the caster), so the SC cost more.

The starting afflictions can be a pain, but if you happen to have the chalice or Gift of Health cast, it donesn't matter anymore.

The other problems start to fade into nothingness when you realise that you can summon them in great numbers thanks to their base cost, and even a simple units they are great for the cost if massed.

Some possible solutions (we might need to use several of them):

- cost increased to 40+ D gems, this would make the spell hard to mass as much, it would still be usefull, but you would be more likely to look first for alternatives if you can.

- make the spell always summon a commander (and increase the cost), or make it always summon a simple unit, so the need to cast GoR is garanteed and the spell cost can take it into account

What I would like would be for the late game to be around a few SCs, lots of thug, and some national units, instead of a race for who can get the most SCs.