Suggestions for OOB 39 Romania

[CarpathianDragon]

Hello everybody. I have a few suggestions for the Romanian OOB, some fixes and additions.

Here is what I would recommend in OOB 39 - Romania for the next patch :

- Add LAROM Rocket Artillery.

Israeli LAR-160 MK IV rocket pods mounted on Romanian DAC truck. Two pods of 13 rockets each. Apparently can fire cluster munitions, so perhaps include a CM variant? Entered service in 2002.

- Add HAWK XXI Surface to Air Missiles

Acquired from Netherlands, entered service in 2007.

- Add Paratroopers (Section,Platoon,Company) / Remove Airborne Mountain

Romania fielded three paratrooper brigades during the Cold War, downsized to one after 1989 and finally disbanded in 2005 with two battalions still active.

Also, AFAIK, Romanian mountain troops are not trained for airmobile operations,while the paratroopers themselves despite their name are primarily meant to use helicopters (IAR 330 Puma) rather than fixed wing aircraft.

- Remove Aero Lancer II/III RBK cluster bombs

Romania does not have Soviet RBK cluster bombs in its arsenal, therefore the weapon loadout of Aero Lancer II (unit 153) and Aero Lancer III (unit 154) should be similar to Aero Lancer I (unit 146 - bombs loadout, unit 152 - rockets loadout)

- Make MiG-29s unavailable from 2003

The MiG-29 the retired from service in March 2003 due to lack of spare parts (which Russia understandably was not keen to supply). Units 145,155,156

- Remove MT-LBs

Romania did not and is not using these. Units 221,222.

- Future Strike Element : JAS-39C Gripen

Romania has been looking to replace its MiG-21 rust-rockets and the second-hand Dutch F-16s apparently were favored. However, with the whole economic crisis thing, the Gripen will likely be the chosen plane due to cheaper purchase and maintenance costs. Recommnended starting date : 2015.

[DRG]

Originally Posted by CarpathianDragon

Hello everybody.
- Add LAROM Rocket Artillery.

Israeli LAR-160 MK IV rocket pods mounted on Romanian DAC truck. Two pods of 13 rockets each. Apparently can fire cluster munitions, so perhaps include a CM variant? Entered service in 2002.

http://www.deagel.com/Rockets/LAR-160_a002251001.aspx

says " 2007 and 2008 " ???


Don

[DRG]

"Romarm produces two types of 152mm DPICM artillery projectiles called the CG-540 and CG-540 ER"

When did this production start ? Right now there are no CM in the Romanian OOB. I can correct that but I need to know when this started.

Don

[CarpathianDragon]

1)On the starting date for the LAROM. My bad, it actually seems to be 2005,not 2002.

I found this local news article about the DEMEX '05 exercise.

http://www.sibiul.ro/download-pdf/st...-2005_5948.pdf

"Divizionul 83 LAROM, din cadrul Brigazii 8 Artilerie
Mixta -Barlad" .

That's the 83rd LAROM Battalion from the 8th Mixed Artillery Brigade.

Also, I found an online PDF version of military appropriations bill from March 2005.

http://www.dpa.ro/rp/publicatii/buletine/bc2005_1.pdf

It's in Romanian, but in row 8 of the table you can clearly read : "Lansator LAROM 160". It's pretty self-explainatory even if your Romanian is a bit rusty. On the 5th column you can see the purchase period : between 2004 and 2010.

Finally, I found a short communique in English on the Romanian govt site about the DEMEX '05 exercise :

http://www.gov.ro/demex-05-distingui..._l2a75097.html

"It is mainly about the Infantry Combat Vehicle MLI-84 „JDERUL”, tank TR-85-M1 „BIZONUL”, ground artillery system LAROM, air defence artillery systems Oerlikon and Gepard. The Air Forces will participate in the exercise with two MIG-21 LanceR aircraft and four helicopters IAR 330 PUMA SOCAT."

Emphasis mine.

March 2005 sound ok?

2) Whoa! I googled that phrase about the 152mm CM round and I actually have to go back on my request about no Soviet RBK-250 cluster bombs in Romanian service.

A Red Cross region factsheet on Cluster Munitions in Eastern Europe from 2008 :

http://www.unhcr.org/refworld/pdfid/48d748f723.pdf

Listed for Romania :

- CG-540(ER)
- CL-250/RBK (nullifies my proposed changes to Aero Lancers)
- MK IV LAR-160 rocket
- KMG-U Dispenser

Although for the CG-540 there seems to be some confusion. The CG-540 rounds seems to be a simple HE round according to the manufacturer's website :

http://www.romarm.ro/files/AA_ammo_b...ion_1_jpeg.jpg

I couldn't find any link between the CG-540 and the GAA-001 bomblets (purportedly identical to Israeli M85 submunitions), I'll have to ask in a Romanian forum about that.

Still, the reference to the CG-540 is described in the footnote as "Jane's Ammunition Handbook 2001-2002", so I guess 2001 would be a ballpark date.

I will ask around,though, and get back on this one.

[DRG]

Originally Posted by CarpathianDragon

Hello everybody. I have a few suggestions for the Romanian OOB, some fixes and additions.



- Add Paratroopers (Section,Platoon,Company) / Remove Airborne Mountain

Romania fielded three paratrooper brigades during the Cold War, downsized to one after 1989 and finally disbanded in 2005 with two battalions still active.

Also, AFAIK, Romanian mountain troops are not trained for airmobile operations,while the paratroopers themselves despite their name are primarily meant to use helicopters (IAR 330 Puma) rather than fixed wing aircraft.

OK, fair enough it would be nice to know WHEN Romania STARTED fielding the paras during the cold war 1960 ? 1950 ?? 1970 ???

A start date would be helpful.

Also.. "finally disbanded in 2005 with two battalions still active." means what ?? The para brigades have been disbanded? Brigades mean nothing in this game. All I need to know is there are companies still active and when they first became active.

Don

[CarpathianDragon]

The first Romanian para battalion was founded in November 1950 and the first regiment (the 60th) two years later.

Today the 60th still exists but it is a battalion, NATO accession downsizing.

Also, the An-2 para transport is only available from 1954, so you could add the Li-2 available from 1950 to cover the gap.

Also, since we're on the subject,two more possible additions :

1) Romania does have a marine infantry battalion, the 307th, founded in November 1971 meant primarily for the Danube Delta defence purposes. Would that warrant an addition?

2) There is also a 1st Special Operations Battalion active since 2007, a possible candidate for Commando-class infantry.

Ah,one final thing. Romania joined NATO in 2004 and abolished conscription in 2007. Shouldn't these two factors bump Romania's base experience and/or morale up to 70 alongside the other NATO members?

Note that this is really a question,I don't want to come off as a kind of raving nationalist or anything.

[Suhiir]

While I won't begin to try to speak for Don/Andy on this matter.
Experience and Morale ratings aren't simply a matter of volunteer vs conscript. The quality (difficult to quantify) and amount (both length of, and subjects covered) of trainig as well as any revelent "national characteristics" (example, the British military has a long history of being steady under fire) are factors that determine these ratings. Such things rarely change (for the better) during short periods of time (they may well degrade quickly in the event of a genocidal civil war for example).
I hope this helps explain why such a change may not (yet) be made to the OOB.

[DRG]

part of the problem ATM is that the code is only set up for one number for both >1990 and changing that isn't something done lightly

Don

[CarpathianDragon]

I understand. Given that these values can be set manually (Preferences and such) it's not such a big deal.

If there is need for any additional info, ask and I'll answer or try to find somebody who can.