Transport for U.S. Patriot Units-Update!

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

[/b] First I REALLY hate to beat a dead horse and I'm sorry if someone gets upset for continuing an "old" thread (OT),
(Dated 10-03-08 and active now.) with a new one.
This transport issue has been bothering me for sometime (We never would have guessed!) especially after having been around the ones "we might or not be carrying" aboard the various classes of subs I've served on. What is the MOST basic thing needed to launch ANY missile? Yes - power! Who ever allowed the Dutch (see OT) to have transport whether he realized it or not was on the right track. By rights NONE of the Patriot systems in the game should work without it because the tractor supplies all the power required for the trailor to include launching the missiles.
Case in point, U.S. Patriot missiles (Through PAC/3 in use now.) are carried onboard the M860A1 semi-trailor specifically designed for the Patriot. It is transported in the field by the
M983 Tractor (Shown I believe as the U.S. Tank Transport Tractor in the game.). And like that card this missile DOESN'T leave home without it because the altenator of the M983 supplies the 100amp power needed for ALL launcher fuctions via the M860A1
semi-trailer. Therefore transport and launching are all inclusive. And it takes no longer to transport then field arty as the game operates now (Or how it treats the DUTCH Patriot units.) Also a modified M983 Tractor flat bed provides field supply and reloading capbilities.
I would refer you to the pictures (Many showing the two
together.) provided in the "OT" or online and JANE's Worlds Military Transport book which provided the power info among others. Also I found an excellent site @ FAS.ORG/SPP/STARWARS/DOCOPS/FM44-85/Appe.HTM that goes into detail on transport loading requirments for the M983 and
M860A1.
And look out for MEADS which will replace the Patriot. This is a joint U.S., German and Italian project. Essentionally MEADS is a Patriot PAC/3 on steriods on a mobile 5-ton truck platform capable of launching 12 missiles with, combat field reloading just like the Patriot. Will be in launch field testing in 2011 and expected to be fully operational and in the field by 2014.
Thanks for your time and patience!!!
Pat

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

So here I am, just finished battle #2 as the USMC vs Russia. Completed the repair phase, changed a couple units, punched out and the AI wants me to play against Iran (One of my standard 17-21 gen battle campaigns over a years time.) for B3. Shop for support units and thought let me check out what the Marines are using for SAM Batteries (Patriots yes I know.) They come in two choices static (WRONG) and with prime movers (RIGHT) as I discussed above and in my original Patriot Transport post. As far as the U.S. is concerned normally the USA gets all the new toys before the USMC gets them. This just looks like an oversight issue and I would think it might be an easy fix(?) so that like the Dutch and the USMC, that all countries that possess the Patriot have the same capability as again referred to above. Just a thought with all due respect. Wished I could've caught this sooner, as mentioned in the MRAP post I've just never played this game using the USMC until this week after all these years.
With Regards and a Good Night,
Pat
P.S. Andy I do remember the post in the MRAP one where you indiciated this would be reviewed for the Winter. Can see if others already have the transport option available in the game beside the Dutch and USMC?

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

Good Morning! Some pictures as provided by GlobalSecurity.org.
M983 with M860A1 Semi, note this system can be left unmanned and still be launched via data link (DLC) from a launch station.

This is the M985E1 its purpose is to provide resupply to Patriot Batteries in the field. It has it's own integral crane for transfer of the Patriots with a carry capacity of four missiles. It is designated as a Guided Missile hauler.

Hope this is useful.
V/R
Pat

[Mobhack]

Originally Posted by FASTBOAT TOUGH

Good Morning! Some pictures as provided by GlobalSecurity.org.
Attachment 8870 M983 with M860A1 Semi, note this system can be left unmanned and still be launched via data link (DLC) from a launch station.

Attachment 8869 This is the M985E1 its purpose is to provide resupply to Patriot Batteries in the field. It has it's own integral crane for transfer of the Patriots with a carry capacity of four missiles. It is designated as a Guided Missile hauler.

Hope this is useful.
V/R
Pat

Not really, for SP.

A SAM element simply is a representative element for the launcher. It is carried by a heavy truck (as patriots will be when we sort the carry cost).

The element can be assumed to contain any number of auxiliary vehicles, not represented in the game. All the game needs is something that launches a SAM. We don't care a whit if Sam-X has 2 APU vehicles, a tea trolley and 2 different fire control radars. Those are unnecessary detail that the game abstracts. Nor does SP have any concept of battery fire control, for SAM or arty. The launcher is "it" for game purposes, as is the individual "self-plotting" field gun for on-map indirect arty.

Cheers
Andy

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

Andy,
Fully understand the need for "KISS" from the software and more importantly the play of the game. Just wanted to "illustrate" the point I was trying to make earlier in regard to the operational importance of the transport unit to the launcher and it's operation. It's all good!
Regards,
Pat

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

Just thought it made sense to post further PATRIOT Pac-3/MEADS info here as some info has come to light in the testing area. This IS NOT to rehash old issues which I believe have been resolved in the 5.0 patch.
First a more recent overview of both programs:
http://www.army-technology.com/projects/meads/
And an update reported this month on the testing program:
http://www.defense-update.com/produc...2010.html#more
Pics:

Regards,
Pat

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

NATO missile defence linked up.
http://www.defpro.com/news/details/17091/
Had to clear my head as these things where rolling around as I took a break from things here.

Regards,
Pat

[Suhiir]

Note to Self: Continue following Fastboat Toughs' threads, excellent info!

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

This is the raw data only as submitted from the last patch post I submitted. It's been my policy to repost these into their "home" threads for comment or not.

TRANSPORT FOR U.S. ...UPDATE!
D1. DELETE: ITALY/MEADS/UNIT 182/ The reason for deletion is that the MEADS is about 4 - 5 years out from being fielded providing there are no delays in testing and as follows. This program is under so much pressure that if any one of the three legs holding this up falters (U.S. 58%, Germany 25% & Italy 17% of funding.) this program is probably done. As I noted in the "JET..." thread it was not mentioned in the JAN 06, 2011 speech by SECDEF Gates as one of the programs to be cut, also no news out of the other two partners of any move thus far to do likewise with their defense budgets even though they are making major cuts as well in defense spending. Lockheed Martin is also pushing hard against it (MEADS) as well with the major success seen in the PATRIOT (Upgrade.) PAC 3 missile. But this could survive all because of the cancellation guarantees that could run into the 100's of millions of dollars at the point of termination in development. It should be noted however that the program has been very successful to date. This will allow for a mobile platform to be properly modeled as this is NOT a static system! Also each mobile launcher will have a dedicated ammo unit paired with it, and will actually be bought as a unit in this manner such as the ARCHER SPA System and the USA with PALIDAN.
http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/...744/#more-5744 FMTV based on this to be the new launcher, supply and component platform.
http://www.olive-drab.com/idphoto/id_photos_fmtv.php
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000...KEYWORDS=meads
http://www.reuters.com/article/idCNN2726097420101027
http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/...s-0639/#conops
Posts: Page 1; #6 & #7, Page 2; #11, #12, #15, #17 & #18.

D2. DELETE: USA & USMC/HUMRAAM/UNITS 816 & 513 Respectively/ Program cancelled on 06 Jan. 2011 by SECDEF Gates.
http://www.defpro.com/daily/details/...5f3882e1791d50 SECDEF Gates kills SLAMRAAM & EFV etc.
https://www.fbo.gov/index?s=opportun...1f966&_cview=0 Dated: 02 Sep. 2010 @ 1041.
This is to show how long ago and fast a program dies. This document is the final solicitation notice to incorporate the FMTV as the launcher platform and complete the testing to final system operational demonstration of SLAMRAAM as it goes into low rate production.
https://www.fbo.gov/index?s=opportun...1415a&_cview=0
Dead. Dated: 22 Sep. 2010 @ 0909.
Posts: Page 2; #16 & #20.

S-400 TRIUMF Page 4 TO&Es
C1. CHANGE: RUSSIA/S-400 TRIUMF/UNIT 295/Fielded date to JAN 2010vice JAN 2007/ This program suffered from delays as well and I suspect was entered based on developmental data. This is mounted on a mobile platform as well as it should be. Will transfer this info to the SPA/SPAA thread when done here.
http://www.globalsecurity.org/milita...ssia/s-400.htm
As of 2007 it was not deployed due to technical issues. Some reported it had but as this touches on it there was confusion in the west between the S-400 and an upgraded version of the S-300 early on as well.
http://www.defpro.com/news/details/12012/
S-400 completes trials in Nov. 2009 as reported in Dec. 2009.
http://www.defpro.com/news/details/14918/
This article would almost suggest a later date then I have given above based on production and combat launch testing to not have been completed/or started until this past fall. I still like the date above as Post #1 supports this as well as the AUSA (Which in the updated section supports Post #1.) source I used recently in the Jet... thread.
Post: Page 1; #1.
End Part 1

Regards,
Pat

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

News of the week.

S-400 TRUMF slowly still coming on line as Moscow gets it's second battery.
http://en.rian.ru/mlitary_news/20110216/162635663.html
This also came off the "did".com site.

Well I've been watching this program for a long time now and warned in the patch post that if one leg leg of the 3 legged stool faltered the program will likely be killed. Well you better get off that stool right now, two are faltering real fast!!
These countries stand to lose in the 100's of millions of dollars or more by canceling MEADS now. And parallels to the
F-35, EFV and other programs are not hard too make here. All are troubled programs, with cost over runs, R&D issues and questions arising over are these the right systems for the times? Though MEADS has had some major successes over the last couple of years, like the EFV the cost has finally maybe caught up to MEADS as well. You have to really step back if you live in the U.S. given what's happening here politically and ask is the F-35program really that safe if if the cost over runs continue? I do know my Federal taxes are going up on 1 Mar. and on 4 Mar. the government will shut down without a compromise on the budget we've here yet to pass for FY 2011. If this keeps up the F-35 could easily find itself going the way of SLARAAM (w/European partners.) , EFV, and now MEADS (w/European partners.) if it doesn't "fly right" and get it's costs under control. The MEADS radar system is so advanced it might cross over to the PATRIOT PAC III making a much improved PATRIOT system better.
http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/...639/#contracts

A perspective.
http://www.defpro.com/daily/details/...0a3d0df2434e95

Regards,
Pat