Autocannon ammo loadout of AFVs

[Shan]

When looking at the thread on the Czech Pandur II armament some time ago, I found a point I'd like to discuss: the ammo loadout of AFVs in the game ---

1.) AFAIK one autocannon salvo counts for 10 rounds in the game - so a real-life loadout of, say, 200 HE rounds should be represented as 20 HE in the game - correct?

2.) As with tanks, the ammo loadout in the game should always comprise all ammo available on the vehicle - say, reserve ammo stored in the hull, et cetera, should also be included - reload times to fill up an auto-loader or a cannon magazine and such issues are not considered - right?

I do, however, believe that there are certain AFVs where this is not the case - only the ammo ready to fire is beig considered, and this leads IMHO to some very unbalanced situations.

Therefore, if I am right with points 1 + 2, I'd suggest we use this thread to collect evidence of incorrect ammo loadouts. (with nation + slot number plus a source for the real loadout at the ready so this can be used to improve the game...)

I do not have the game ready at the moment to provide you with more examples right now, but I'll do so later. Here are just the two I remember to be incorrect in the current OOBs but I'll check: The Czech Pandur II which in reality has 100HE/100sabot rounds ready plus 100/100 stored (see other thread for the source); the Yugoslavian BVP M-80 IFV which in reality has 400 20mm rounds in total but I am not sure about the ratio of HE and AP (source: http://www.vojska.net/eng/armed-forc...carrier/m-80/) while the improved M-80A in the 20mm version has 1,400 20mm rounds. (http://www.pmulcahy.com/tracked_apcs...acked_apcs.htm)


Contribuions welcome,,,

Shan

[Mobhack]

it is only a guideline that "10 cannon rounds = 1 burst", for example the WW2 German 20mm and the Post war UK Rarden are treated as mainly a form of big SLR, so more shots from a given number of rounds. Also, larger cannon might get the same effect from fewer rounds. Then - what about Vulcan type cannons?.

so - there is really no "grand unified theory" - it is up to the individual OOB designer to decide what the ammo loadout should be for a particular vehicle. Given a new vehicle, one might divvy up the ammo load by 10 to get an initial idea of the sort of ammo load there should be - but then the designer will make decisions of his own.

So - simply doing a mechanical divide by 10 exercise on all vehicles would not really help much, though it might throw up any oddities that might need investigating. But for th reasons that X has Y load - you would need to query the original OOB designer(s) - and some are no longer active.


Cheers
Andy

[DRG]

DO NOT, under any circumstances take everything on http://www.pmulcahy.com/ as an incontrovertible truth . If you want to use it as a starting point....fine. But then go find another source to back it up but DO NOT use it to prove a point.

The "Pandur" issue has already been brought up on another thread as you noted but so has the M-80 issue and both have been noted for correction on my MBT to-do list.

Don

[Shan]

Okay, thanks for your replies. A division by ten is just a hint, alright, so I'd need to come up with some clear examples where I find the ammo loadout is incorrect - I'll do it if I find some, other than the two previous ones.

And these sources were the first things I found with google - I don't have my own computer here with some hopefully better sources... I just wanted to start the thread for now and, based on your replies, invite anyone to bring up examples.

[Shan]

The V-150 Commando in its 20mm version carries 6+6 rounds HE/AP in the OOBs where I found it - for example with Trukey: Unit 52; Thailand: Unit 100; now, http://www.globalsecurity.org/milita...150-specs.htm; Tanks of the world, ed. 8; and other sources all say it has 200 rounds ready + 200 reserve, 400 in total - this should then be 20/20 in the game I guess.

Besides, in the OOB of Saudi Arabia I found a version - Unit 123 - with the only armament being a 20mm cannon and only 12x HE ammo - that might be a mistake.

[kikka]

Another hint I found is
1. trying to find the burst ROF of a given weapon
2. calculating the # of projectiles fired during this second of fire
3. divide the real life ammo load by the result of 2 above.
4. Tadaaa
Does not give crazy results in terms of ammo load and respects the fact that a higher ROF gives higher lethality but less firing opportunities.
Just my 2 cts.
Cheers.