Could someone explain:

[Atrocities]

Could someone explain why we can not have over 255 systems? What exactly happens when you exceed this number and why?

I want to have a game with up wards of 350 systems in it, but am fearfull that will cause problems, and I do not know why. Your help is appreciated as always.


------------------
"We've made too many compromises already, too many retreats! They invade our space and we fall back -- they assimilate entire worlds and we fall back! Not again! The line must be drawn here -- this far, no further! And I will make them pay for what they've done!" -- Patrick Stewart as Captain Picard
UCP/TCO Ship Yards

[jc173]

This came up a week or two ago and my guess it has something to with an 8 bit variable being somehow associated with storing info about the systems. Possibly some sort of bitmap relating to an internal bookkeeping variable, possibly the ID number of the system used by the game. You could try to add more, but my guess it is that it won't generate more than 255 and the game itself might possibly crash.

[Atrocities]

God I hate the limitations of some programing language. This I would hope would be one thing that Aaron would improve upon when he gets time. I love to explore, and exploring is one of the things that this game offers that greatly appeals to me. But with 8+ races and their AI on max, they explore far to quickly, and leave me hi and dry. Any other info on the 255 glass system ceiling would be appreciated. Thanks.

------------------
"We've made too many compromises already, too many retreats! They invade our space and we fall back -- they assimilate entire worlds and we fall back! Not again! The line must be drawn here -- this far, no further! And I will make them pay for what they've done!" -- Patrick Stewart as Captain Picard
UCP/TCO Ship Yards

[jc173]

Well depending on pervasive the use of this variable is, if it is the limiting cause... it might be as simple as a global search and replace or more likely it is something much more complex. No way to tell without knowing the source code better.

Now I assuming my guess is actually on the mark about the 8 bit variable, I wonder why he didn't use at least a 16 bit short or just a regular int. Then again I'm not familiar with what language he used and there could be plenty of other considerations that affected his decision to do it this way. That said I'm not sure you could physically fit 65335 star systems onto the current strategic map. I guess he could have used some intermediary number but I can't remember any simple/primitive variable types on most Languages that are between 8 and 16 bits off the top of my head right now.

Actually I guess that makes sense, I'm guessing that he probably didn't think any of us would want over 65k systems. I like playing on a big map too, but I have trouble remembering where stuff is as it is set up now sometimes. 65k star systems.... sheesh I'd be really lost<G> So maybe it was some sort of compromise. Imagine how slow the game would get and how much memory and disk space it would take to play and save it if the galaxy were that big. It'd be interesting but geeze I barely finish games on a large map now <G>

[This message has been edited by jc173 (edited 08 May 2001).]

[klausD]

I would also like to have a much bigger game. The number of systems, mapsize and races a SE4 game offers should depend on your PC-system.

Or how about a concept of "galactic sectors". Every sector has the size of a normal huge SE4 game map. But the maps are connected. This means you can jump from one map to the another if you have the appropriate interstellar drive. Each time you jump the game loads the map you choose. (with all its races, wonders, systems etc.)
This means that at the same time is only one galactic sector is active, untill you choose to activate another. (of course you have to have some assets there to do the activation)

Of course this kind of game is not good for a quick MP game over the internet. But it should be good for each long solo game or for a hosted PBEM game too.

The tech cost should be multiplied if such a monster game is played to avoid "running out" of techs in the middle of the game.

Lets see what the map editor and the future in general adds to this topic.

klaus

[Lemmy]

i think it's about mem usage

let's do a little math :

suppose you have 255 systems

each system can have a name, i don't know the max. characters for a name, but i haven't seen them larger than 32, that is 32 bytes for the name

on average a system has about 10 planets, some have no planets, and some have as much as 15

a planet has three resource values, mineral, organics and radioactives, i haven't seen those above 255%, so one byte per resource would be enough, that is 3 bytes.

a planet also has a atmosphere and type, there are three type, Gas, Rock and Ice
and 5 (?) atmospheres, Oxygen, Hydrogen, Methane, Carbon Dioxide and None. thos could be fitted in 1 byte

then there is the population 4 bytes (common int)

population growth 1 byte

the buildings build on a planet, they could be references to an array in which all the buildings are stored, if so, there is a maximum of 25 (?) buildings on a huge world, that would mean 25 indices, or 25 integers, that is 100 bytes,
a sphereworld can hold 200 buildings, but that is an exception

then there are the ships and units and such but i don't have time include them right now

so for just a galaxy with 255 systems with on average 10 planets per system, you would use

287232 bytes = 280 kb

that ain't much, but suppose you use a 16 bit number for the systems instead of an 8 bit number, then it would be

73531392 bytes = about 70 mb

maybe i'll include ships and units later, or someone else could do it..



[This message has been edited by LemmyM (edited 08 May 2001).]