Quote:
Originally Posted by Valerius
@rdonj: I'll have to look at the current Itza and see if I still have the OMFG reaction I first did (I refer to it as my Hinnom reaction  ). But you bring up an interesting point with Pythium - maybe it's not so much that mod nations tend to be off-the-scale OP but that the average level of power is higher than the average level of power for base game nations? I also think they sometimes have too many "specials" (things like magic weapons, recuperation/healing, etc.) - these things are great because they help make nations unique but add too many of them and it gets to be too much. But I make no claim to be a mod nation expert so perhaps I'm wrong in my impressions.
Also, note to self: never have Cal sub for me. I can see the postgame commentary now:
"Supposedly Valerius is something of an idiot savant when it comes to glamour nations. I can now confirm the idiot portion of that description is accurate. Let's start with the W4 bless. This was probably taken because it will be a big help defensively when the thugs get swarmed. Or maybe because it will help the elite sacred troops Eriu doesn't have. After all, why take some S magic or even better scales when you can waste points on a useless bless? But through some fluke you may actually reach Constr. 8 first. Of course forging somewhat useful things like the chalice or gate stone will be out of the question since you've done nothing to diversify from your national magic. And even the things you can forge will have to wait a few turns since why bother forging the requisite boosters ahead of time so you're ready to go when you reach Constr. 8? Speaking of research, why have all your mages that aren't otherwise occupied actually research? Just for fun leave some of them on 'defend' orders. I've seen worse positions in my time - by newbs. Actually, many newbs play better than the incompetence on display here." |
That reminds me of another thing that was removed from Itza, the magic weapons on all the recruitables that used to have them :P And from most of the sacred spawnings. Before the various nerfs to them Itza was probably the strongest non-Amos nation I've seen. Like, if pythium was a 10, Itza was probably a 12. Now it's probably more like an 8. Still strong, but actually comparable to real nations now. 8 may be overestimating them, even.
As for the power levels of mod nations in general - yes, that seems to be the predominant trend. I think there are a number of reasons this tends to be the case. Some are at least semi-conscious, others are not. For example, when experimenting with new ideas it's easy to come up with things that seem okay on first glance, but turn out to be horribly overpowered in practice. Like when sombre had the skaven commanders able to summon allies of various recruitables. Having recruit everywhere freespawn causes balance issues, but back when they actually had that ability, the community didn't realize how big of a problem they could be. Now we do :P And the skaven have become, IMO, probably the best quality mod nation we have right now. Thematic as hell, maybe even a little on the weak side, and so much fun to play. Well, for me anyway.
It can also be very hard to price things properly before seeing how the nation performs in real games with human opponents. So what usually happens is a mod nation comes out significantly stronger than intended and gets hit with the nerf stick a couple of times before it reaches a reasonable status. Mod nations just don't get as much testing as regular nations do, so it's little wonder if they're just a bit buggier. Don't let old-style Itza and stygia ruin your perception of all mods though. They're not really representative of the currently played mods.
Erm, sorry for going off on a mod-induced tangent. That wasn't a bad Calahan impersonation, but I think there's too much sarcasm. Calahan isn't so subtle... he's all about manifesting that vitriol