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Old July 14th, 2008, 03:04 PM

Marek_Tucan Marek_Tucan is offline
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Default Re: Opfire (no, not about the draining problem...)

Quote:
Anton said:
It's a controversial topic, and it has nothing to deal with the game's engine, because reaction shoots will come always first, irregardless of whether it's T-72s, T-90s orLeopards. I am neither prepared nor want to start a dispute over the effectiviness of T-72 agains the Arbrams in Desert Storm.

Reaction doesn't always come first. It comes first in this given scenario because you have here a large difference in training and equipment, charging a firing line of Abramses head-on is a sure recipe for massacre. OTOH if the game is more matched, you may well deprive the enemy of op-fire, esp. if you move slowly, using cover, or try to suppress the enemy before closing in.

Quote:

Maybe those were the TOW missiles that T-72s couldn't resist? You say "even without Opfire" as if it helped the T-72s in some way, but in fact it helps the Abrams tanks vary much (given the tut scenario's situation)

No, he hints that such one-sided battles happened IRL even if the Abramses worked in real-time and not with the opfire (which appears to be your beef here ) Btw Iraqui tanks couldn't resist 120mm APFSDSDU as well as the i-TOW

Quote:

That's cheating, so many thank to the developers for Op-fire filtering!

As the telling goes, "When two do the same, it may not be the same". Sending waves of Jeeps on the enemy to drain op-fire is cheating. Sending say company of T-55's headlong so that a platoon of T-72's may maneuver to the flank is a legitimate tactics. 'And Op-fire filtering is a double-edged blade. You may not waste your ammo by shooting at BTR's and reserving shots for tanks... But those BTR's may be carrying ATGM or RR teams to a position from wich they will fry your tanks

Quote:

This 100%-first Opfire approach not only balances but sometimes even over-balancesthe game, i.e. turns the situation to equally unjust with respect to the opposite side.

But it isn't 100% first approach. UFO was mentioned here (I may add say Jagged Alliance) but there, if you used your squad of super-trained soldiers against an UFO full of low-level Floaters some time late in the game, you'd also have an "Almost-100%" op-fire ratio. The same here with US veteran units against low-tech low-training Iraquis.

Quote:

Why so? If I my tanks' crews know the enemy is there, it's no longer an ambush. They're prepaired to meet and attack them.

No they aren't. Not fully. Even if you knew 100% where exactly the enemy is, your tankers have to find that spot themselves, then try to find the tank, then aim, etc. All this on the move in given situation. And with inferior optics etc. Abrams crews in stationary tanks have OTOH much higher chance of finding a moving target and then acquiring the target.

Quote:

Yes, but I did it on purpose because the thinngs I am talking about are brightly pronounced in it. Other "real" scenarious are accurately designed and balances so that such problems are not so terribly decicive.

In the reality sense, the Tutorial is much closer to most "Gulf War" scenarios. Scens are balanced out so they are hard and funny, but IRL it was often just such an one-sided affair as the tutorial is. I believe I've seen somewhere a quote of Iraqui officer saying roughly "My Bn began war with 31 tanks. During the air strikes, we lost 2. Then, during a 30-minute engagement with ground troops, we lost all remaining."
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