retro-multi-model construction???
 

I've heard a lot about this one, and seen it in work, but i'd like to know how does this one work exactly. It seems to me that by those retrofittings i would soon deplete my resource base and an unfortunate event/attack can cripple me completely.

OK, how does that work?

Re: retro-multi-model construction???
 

Retroseries?

In short, it is a way to speed up production at the cost of spending more money.

For your basic ships of the line, you should not need it; rather, have enough planetary and orbital yards to use up all your resources as fast as you get them dug up.

Retroseries are good for super-emergency-build effects, and special items.
A good example is a Battlemoon, or Sphereworld component bases...

First build a stripped down Version that takes a minimum of time to complete on your spaceyards.
If your basic design takes exactly 2 or 3 turns to complete, you will get your finished product into service the fastest.
If your basic design takes only 1 turn to build, you can get more ships out per turn on average, but you will have a longer delay before the first one is spaceworthy.

Once you have a stripped down design that can be built quickly, COPY that design, and add components until the TOTAL cost in all three resources COMBINED is close to 150% of the original's cost.
Note that the costs are combined!
1000 minerals +400 organics +100 rads is 150% the cost of a 0 minerals, 0 organics, 1000 rads cost design, and CAN be retrofitted to!

As your Spaceyards rapidly build the stripped down designs, retrofit each one as it completes to the 150% cost design.
The yards will repair these ships while they build the next stripped down Version.

A retroseries involves chaining many designs together;
- Basic
- Retro 1 (50% more)
- Retro 2 (50% more than R1) 2.25x more than basic
- Retro 3 (50% more than R2) 3.375x more than basic
- ...
- Retro 9 (50% more than R8) 38.4x more than basic
- Final (50% more than R9) 57x more than Basic!

So, in a simultaneous game, if the Basic Design cost you 2 turns of building to make, +10 turns to retrofit to each retroseries design in turn, you get:
A super-huge ship that would have taken 114 TURNS in only 12 turns plus repair time!
Not to mention you get your second ship off the line on turn 14 instead of turn 228 (!)

This is an extreme example, but it does apply to Battlemoons and Sphereworld components.
To a lesser extent, it can also apply to warships.

The key is that, when money is not an issue, you CAN speed up your production by throwing money at the problem http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif
For a Battleship that takes 5 turns to complete at an orbital yard, we can design a basic hull that costs only 1/5th that amount and builds in 1 turn.
It will take a 4 step retroseries to get the basic hull to the final design (since (1.5)^4 = 5.0625)

By turn #5, the regular yard strategy will leave you with one finished battleship.
By turn #5, the retroseries yard has:
- 1 Final-design battleship, with many damaged components
- 1 R3 design battleship
- 1 R2 design battleship
- 1 R1 design battleship
- 1 Basic design battleship

Not worth it yet, but just wait!

By turn #10, the regular yard has completed 2 full battleships.
The retroseries yard now has:
- 6 Final Design battleships
- 1 R3 design battleship
- 1 R2 design battleship
- 1 R1 design battleship
- 1 Basic design battleship

Assuming you have the repair capacity to keep up with the volume of ships (a single repair base should be more than sufficient)
With the retro-strategy yard, you now have 3x as many finished battleships, and are pumping them out 5x faster than normal!

So, if you have the money, but not the build rate, retroseries may be for you!

[ January 27, 2003, 02:05: Message edited by: Suicide Junkie ]

Re: retro-multi-model construction???
 

Keep in mind that, as of a recent patch, you can't retrofit a SY component into a ship which doesn't already have one. Found that one out the hard way on my massive WP defense/BSY starbase. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif

Re: retro-multi-model construction???
 

Same goes for colony modules, IIRC.

Speaking of which, does that mean that I can't retrofit a gas colonizer into a rock colonizer (for example)?

Re: retro-multi-model construction???
 

you can retrofit from 1 type to another just not from one with no colony to one with a colony module.

Re: retro-multi-model construction???
 

There are more modest ways to use a retroseries.

Colony Ship two step:
Build it with the bare requirements plus whatever will fit without costing an extra build turn. Then retroseries more engines and storage. Meanwhile your cranking out another ship.
Very handy if your HW can build 3650 minerals in the begining of the game.

Full Utilization:
A cheap two step series. Simply remove a componant or two so it uses nearly all of a turns capacity, then retrofit. ex. turn rate of 2000 minerals = 5 turns for 9850 minerals vs 6 turns for 1050.

Not Yet Researched:
So you have Combat sensors II, but you will get Combat Sensors III soon. Build it without them and then refit. Great when combined with Full Utilization.

Generic Plus:
A generic configuration (usually a large ship) with a portion empty (about 100K). The empty portion is later filled to counter specific threats or to attack opponents weakness. While still generic the maintenance costs are lower.

Training Plus:
A generic plus that may not even have weapons. Usually in route to or sitting over training, refit, and resupply waypoints. The maintenance savings will usually pay for the refit costs.

Remeber,
You can refit mothballed ships, but they must be re-activated for training.

[ January 28, 2003, 00:26: Message edited by: Wardad ]

Re: retro-multi-model construction???
 

What is the cost of the retrofit? Say I have a 1000 kt ship and I want to retrofit to a 2000 kt ship. I ask because I'm currently receiving word that I cannot finance the refit, despite having more than twice the cost of the target ship set aside (e.g., > 4000 kt set aside in the above example).
Thanks,
Merry

Re: retro-multi-model construction???
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I recommend asking a question in only 1 thread, so that we can just answer it in 1 thread.

From the other thread where you asked:

The relevent numbers are as follows:

Cost to add a component: 120%
Cost to remove a component: 30%
Maximum amount of change in ship cost: 150%, being total cost. i.e. new ship (M+O+R) can't be more than old ship (M+O+R) x 1.5. It is not on an individual resource basis.

These values can be found and modified in settings.txt:

Retrofit Cost Percent For Comps := 120
Retrofit Cost Percent For Comp Removal := 30
Retrofit Max Percent Difference in cost := 50

Slick.

Re: retro-multi-model construction???
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">You're saying 1000kt to 2000kt; are you trying to retrofit between hull sizes? That can't be done. You can't retrofit hulls - only components in the hulls.....

Re: retro-multi-model construction???
 

That's one of the problems involved in measuring everything in KT http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Take a look at the projected retrofit cost; just before you click to select the design you are retrofitting to, look to the right, and you will see the price in each resource.

Note that you need to have the resources in storage.
Even if you are generating a 200,000 resource surplus, if you've only got 50,000 storage, you can't do a retrofit that costs 60,000 in any one resource.