new discovery's --MODS
 

I've been interested in WW2 era history and equipment, particularly aircraft, armoured vehicles and weapons for well over 5 decades so when I discover something totally new it's a surprise.

Up until two days ago, I had not known about the Kharkiv R-10 ( sometimes known as the Kharkiv KhAI-5 and sometimes as the Neman R-10). Usually, if something like this happens it's because they were produced on a very limited basis but there were around 500 R-10's built and that is not a trifling number. Their first combat use was at Khalkhin Go and they were used to at least the end of 1943.

They are in the game now as fighter bombers and recce aircraft and in game terms for 1939 are the most modern UC 44 aircraft in the Russian OOB.

Just saying because this long after WW2 it's remarkable to find something "new"

https://i.imgur.com/nAvz4N9.png

https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-iNV3fCQ6O...nieman%2B4.jpg

Re: new discoverys
 

Very cool. A lot interesting things were built, tried, and forgotten before and during World War 2.

Re: new discoverys
 

And this.... a Grigorovich IP-1 only 90 made and only used for 4 years but 90 is a respectable number and was used from 1936-1940

https://i.imgur.com/OG6dEdh.png

When looked at from top down it has many similarities to the Mitsubishi A5M including wingspan.

I like building aircraft......it's why there are too many in the game

Re: new discoverys
 

We are going to need more unit slots at this rate. :D

Re: new discoverys
 

Nope. There are plenty of slots available in all OOB's but one ( German )and increased unit slots is NEVER ( never, never.... ) going to happen and neither is hiving the SS units into their own OOB.. "not gonna happen".

Increasing the number of slots at this stage would break more things than I could count and right now ( this IS year 22 we've been doing this )... we have no enthusiasm left to even try to consider a way to make it work because we bounced all the options around a decade ago and it all came back "not gonna happen". The work involved is way more than the benefits

Right now there is some German overflow in the Blue OOB and anyone who is curious or wants those units can access them as captured.

As for more new aircraft... those last two may very well be the last two but who knows I was surprised to find them I might be surprised again but I cannot really see that happening.

I have already added 100 mostly upgraded revisions to Icons in WW2 but some are new.

====================
(456,140): 263 British Beaufighter 22 263 REVISED winSPWW2 v11+REVISED winSPWW2 v14
(457,140): 264 British Blenheim 23 264 REVISED winSPWW2 v11+REVISED winSPWW2 v14
(459,117): 266 FINN Blenheim 25 266 REVISED winSPWW2 v14
(512,75): 427 Sukhoi Su-2 36 427 *****REVISED WinSPWW2 v14
(524,71): 357 LaGG.1-3 6 357 ******REV WinSPWW2 v14
(526,73): 359 A-36 Apache 8 359 ******REV WinSPWW2 v14
(527,68): 360 Yak-9 9 360 ******REV WinSPWW2 v14
(528,70): 361 La-5FN 10 361 ******REV WinSPWW2 v14
(556,108): 419 Beaufighter ( PTO ) 38 419 *******Revised WinSPWW2V12******REV WinSPWW2 v14
(595,124): 480 Letov S 328 (Czech) 2 480 ***** REVISED winSPWW2 v14
(599,123): 484 JU-86 ( Hungarian ) 6 484 ***REVISED winSPWW2 v14
(613,114): 498 Commonwealth CA-1 Wirraway ( ANZAC) 20 498 ***REVISED winSPWW2 v14
(615,110): 500 Commonwealth CA-12 Boomerang ( ANZAC) 22 500 ***REVISED winSPWW2 v14
(616,124): 501 Fokker D.XXI ( Finn ) 23 501 ***REVISED winSPWW2 v14
(617,124): 502 Fokker D.XXI (Dutch ) 24 502 ***REVISED winSPWW2 v14
(619,124): 504 Breda Ba.27 ( China ) 26 504 ***REVISED winSPWW2 v14
(622,124): 507 Bloch MB 152 ( France ) 29 507 ***REVISED winSPWW2 v14
(623,122): 508 Bloch MB 152 ( Romania ) 30 508 ***REVISED winSPWW2 v14
(626,124): 511 Martin B10 USA 33 511 ***REVISED winSPWW2 v14
(627,124): 512 Martin B10 DUTCH 34 512 ***REVISED winSPWW2 v14
(628,124): 513 Martin B10 China 35 513 ***REVISED winSPWW2 v14
(629,129): 920 ROM-Blenheim1 36 920 NEW-V5 ***REVISED winSPWW2 v14
(655,130): 946 NSP-Capronchino-310 62 946 NEW-V5 ***REVISED winSPWW2 v14
(656,130): 947 NSP-Caproni-Ca-133 63 947 NEW-V5 ***REVISED winSPWW2 v14
(657,130): 948 NSP-Caproni-Ca-135 64 948 NEW-V5 ***REVISED winSPWW2 v14
(714,123): 533 JU-86 ( SWEDE ) 19 533 ***REVISED winSPWW2 v14
(718,135): 537 CR.42 Falco SWEDE 23 537 *******REVISED winSPWW2 v14
(737,131): 864 NTH-Fokker DXXI-pre war 42 864 NEW-V5 ***** REVISED winSPWW2 v14
(739,128): 866 NTH-Fokker T.V bomber [T.5] 44 866 NEW-V5 ***** REVISED winSPWW2 v14
(740,124): 867 NTH-Fokker T.V bomber [T.5]-prewar 45 867 NEW-V5 ***** REVISED winSPWW2 v14
(753,168): 880 GRK-Blenheim_MkIV 58 880 NEW-V5 ****** REVISED winSPWW2 v11*****REVISED winSPWW2 v14
(754,130): 881 GRK-Bloch_MB_152 59 881 NEW-V5 ***REVISED winSPWW2 v14
(777,81): 904 Yugo-109 82 904 NEW-V5 *****REVISED winSPWW2 v14
(778,132): 905 Yugo-Blenheim1 83 905 NEW-V5 *****REVISED winSPWW2 v14
(780,132): 907 Yugo-caproni310 85 907 NEW-V5 *****REVISED winSPWW2 v14
(891,130): 633 SLOVAK Letov 4 633 NEW-V4 **** Revised winSPWW2 v14
(897,130): 639 CZECH LA-5 10 639 NEW-V4 **** Revised winSPWW2 v14
(915,123): 657 Caproni Ca.310 Norway 28 657 NEW-V4 * Revised winSPWW2 v14
(916,127): 658 Italian Caproni Ca.310 29 658 NEW-V4 * Revised winSPWW2 v14
(936,130): 808 Thai Martin 139W 49 808 NEW-V5 **** Revised winSPWW2 v14
(954,129): 826 BUL Letov 328 67 826 NEW-V5 **** Revised winSPWW2 v14
(955,127): 827 BUL Letov 328-44 68 827 NEW-V5 **** Revised winSPWW2 v14
(974,130): 846 CHI-Waco 240A 87 846 NEW-V5 **** REVISED winSPWW2 v14
(975,108): 847 CHI-Curtiss Hawk 68 88 847 NEW-V5 **** NEW winSPWW2 v14
(980,126): 852 PTO-Swordfish 93 852 NEW-V5 * Revised winSPWW2 v14
(983,125): 855 BRT ETO-Swordfish 96 855 NEW-V5 * Revised winSPWW2 v14
(2240,92): {9274, -1}, // 2074 Hungarian Ca 135 ** NEW WinSPWW2 v7 ***REVISED winSPWW2 v14
(2358,102): {9388, -1}, // 2188 Spainish Republic Potez 540 ********** NEW WinSPWW2 V9***REVISED winSPWW2 v14
(2359,97): {9389, -1}, // 2189 French Potez 540 camo ********** NEW WinSPWW2 V9***REVISED winSPWW2 v14
(2360,98): {9390, -1}, // 2190 French Potez 540 green ********** NEW WinSPWW2 V9***REVISED winSPWW2 v14
(2361,95): {9391, -1}, // 2191 Romanian Potez 543 ********** NEW WinSPWW2 V9***REVISED winSPWW2 v14
(4300,85):{11186, 11187}, //4041. KV-85 Summer ******New_WinSPww2v2 ***REVISED winSPWW2 v14
(4301,84):{11188, 11189}, //4042. KV-85 Winter ******New_WinSPww2v2 ***REVISED winSPWW2 v14
(4899,88): {12216, -1}, //4616 Potez 65T- French *******NewWinSPWW2v4 *****Revised WinSPWW2 v14
(8525,104): {18711, -1}, //8111 Free French AF Blenheim **********NEW winSPWW2 V12**********REVISED winSPWW2 V14
(8624,96): {18810, -1}, //8198 I-16 Russia_2 **********NEW winSPWW2 V12**********REVISED winSPWW2 V14
(8668,97): {18854, -1}, //8340 Hurricane RYAF **********NEW winSPWW2 V12**********REVISED winSPWW2 V14
(8735,99): {18920, -1}, //8220 IL-10 Shturmovík Green/Black ******NEW winSPWW2 V12--Corrected winSPWW2 V14
(8939,67): {19120, -1}, //8502 Sukhoi Su-2 Winter *******REV WinSPWW2 V14
(8955,72): {19136, -1}, //8518 Italian Ba-88 Lince Green *****New WinSPWW2 V14
(8956,73): {19137, -1}, //8519 Italian Ba-88 Lince Desert *****New WinSPWW2 V14
(8957,73): {19138, -1}, //8520 British Beaufighter Desert *****New WinSPWW2 V14
(8958,68): {19139, -1}, //8521 USA Beaufighter Green *****New WinSPWW2 V14
(8959,67): {19140, -1}, //8522 USA Beaufighter Camo *****New WinSPWW2 V14
(8960,69): {19141, -1}, //8523 USA Beaufighter Desert *****New WinSPWW2 V14
(8961,70): {19142, -1}, //8524 Finland Blenheim Winter *****New WinSPWW2 V14
(8962,65): {19143, -1}, //8525 PTO Blenheim Mk.I *****New WinSPWW2 V14
(8963,73): {19144, -1}, //8526 British Blenheim Mk.IV Camo *****New WinSPWW2 V14
(8964,75): {19145, -1}, //8527 British Blenheim Mk.IV Desert *****New WinSPWW2 V14
(8965,59): {19146, -1}, //8528 RSI Ca-310 *****New WinSPWW2 V14
(8966,64): {19147, -1}, //8529 Croatian Ca-311m *****New WinSPWW2 V14
(8967,66): {19148, -1}, //8530 Swede Ca-313 *****New WinSPWW2 V14
(8968,60): {19149, -1}, //357 Yugo Me-109g *****New WinSPWW2 V14
(8969,72): {19150, -1}, //8532 Soviet LAGG-1-3 green camo *****New WinSPWW2 V14
(8970,69): {19151, -1}, //8533 Soviet LAGG-1-3 camo 2 *****New WinSPWW2 V14
(8971,69): {19152, -1}, //8534 Soviet LAGG-1-3 winter *****New WinSPWW2 V14
(8972,69): {19153, -1}, //8535 Soviet La-5 Green Camo *****New WinSPWW2 V14
(8973,70): {19154, -1}, //8536 Soviet La-5 3 tone Camo *****New WinSPWW2 V14
(8974,70): {19155, -1}, //8537 Soviet La-5 winter worn *****New WinSPWW2 V14
(8975,66): {19156, -1}, //8538 Soviet La-5 winter *****New WinSPWW2 V14
(8976,67): {19157, -1}, //8539 Soviet Mig-3 Summer *****New WinSPWW2 V14
(8977,67): {19158, -1}, //8540 Soviet Mig-3 Winter *****New WinSPWW2 V14
(8978,72): {19159, -1}, //8541 Soviet Yak Green/Gray camo *****New WinSPWW2 V14
(8979,69): {19160, -1}, //8542 Soviet Yak 3 tone Camo *****New WinSPWW2 V14
(8980,68): {19161, -1}, //8543 Soviet Yak Green Camo *****New WinSPWW2 V14
(8981,71): {19162, -1}, //8544 Soviet Yak 3 tone Camo 2 *****New WinSPWW2 V14
(8982,70): {19163, -1}, //8545 Soviet Yak Green Camo 2 *****New WinSPWW2 V14
(8983,70): {19164, -1}, //8546 Soviet Yak Green Camo 3 *****New WinSPWW2 V14
(8984,65): {19165, -1}, //8547 Soviet Yak Winter *****New WinSPWW2 V14
(8985,72): {19166, -1}, //8548 Ju.86 Germany Pre war camo *****New WinSPWW2 V14
(8986,73): {19167, -1}, //8549 Ju 86Z South Africa -Summer *****New WinSPWW2 V14
(8987,78): {19168, -1}, //8550 Ju 86Z South Africa -East Africa *****New WinSPWW2 V14
(8988,73): {19169, -1}, //8551 Ju.86 Germany Splinter camo *****New WinSPWW2 V14
(8989,65): {19170, -1}, //8552 Letov S 328 Czech *****New WinSPWW2 V14
(8990,68): {19171, -1}, //8553 Letov S 328 Estonian *****New WinSPWW2 V14
(8991,66): {19172, -1}, //8554 Renard R31 Belgium *****New WinSPWW2 V14
(8992,73): {19173, -1}, //8555 Kharkiv KhAI-5 (Neman R-10) *****New WinSPWW2 V14
(8993,79): {19174, -1}, //8556 Kharkiv KhAI-5 (Neman R-10) Winter *****New WinSPWW2 V14
(8994,77): {19175, -1}, //8557 Kharkiv KhAI-5 (Neman R-10) Camo *****New WinSPWW2 V14
(8995,65): {19176, -1}, //8558 Grigorovich IP-1 *****New WinSPWW2 V14
100 occurrence(s) has been found.

Re: new discoverys
 

I myself also "discovered" R-10 only ten or so years ago, when I was convinced I already knew every Soviet WW2 plane ;)

Re: new discoverys
 

A couple of other aircraft I have upgraded for next release........

Late-model He-111 and one version of the SM.81 along with an early Spanish 111


https://i.imgur.com/V052VJh.png

Re: new discoverys
 

Have to say they look really good

Re: new discoverys
 

Thanks. I'm quite pleased with this series

a few more

https://i.imgur.com/MGlWH0U.png

Re: new discoverys
 

Might need to slow the animations just to watch them fly over they are really good

Re: new discoverys
 

Sometimes ( it's rare ) aircraft will fly in and the game centers on the aircraft and it stays centred while the terrain under it scrolls by. Sometimes the aircraft is what scrolls which gives it a staccato-like display and I would like to find out why it sometimes comes in smoothly.

Way back the original game had a "smooth move" control that never worked well because ( I think.... ) most computers back then could not draw the graphics fast enough for it to work properly and that's another thing I want to poke around with

Re: new discoverys
 

I wish I could draw as well as you guys do with the different paint programs...every time I try to do an icon for for the SHP files..yeah so much never turns out looking right.

Re: new discoverys
 

Start with small changes to an existing icon. Try just changing the colour to learn how the shading works, for instance.


Don't expect results like DRG manages, Don had been finding creative ways to get around the limitations of a restrictive palette and the pixel scale for over two decades!

Re: new discoverys
 

As you say its quite impressive with the scale working at sure there is quite a lot of fooling the eye by causing 'blending" to achieve a shape or shade.

Re: new discoverys
 

As Scorpio says, I've been doing this for 20+ years so I learned a trick or two but basically for aircraft you find a drawing then pixel reduce it to the wingspan you want.

That gives a rough starting point [A] then it gets cleaned up a bit [b] then the outline is applied over a blank fuselage with wing detail ( I have various version for single and muliti engine aircraft along with a series of engines configurations and that gets you to [C] ( more or less ) then it's adjusted a bit more [D] then the glass and prop details are added [E]

Then you create copies [F] using the various palette shades and picking the ones that give these results is part of that 20+ years experience and how many are done depends on how many you need.

Since all the copies are exact duplicates you can start with a base [G] then cut out one of the copies [H] then paste it to the base [i] . A more complicated one may require three or more cut outs [J]

The trick is to have good colour definition but keeping the contrasts reasonable otherwise its a mess of contrasting colours that obscure the detail in the actual aircraft or vehicle

These examples are sharp edge camo. The blended overspray versions are handled differently depending on the size and colour of the Icon. Sometimes it works......sometimes it doesn't

These have all been expanded 2x normal

https://i.imgur.com/iiIqPua.png

Re: new discoverys
 

Wow! I'll just stick to designing scenarios and campaigns, way much easier lol

Re: new discoverys
 

Yeah...but sometimes I get this bug that says hey this whatever should look like this. I blame it on my building miniature scifi models and such. Then again I am always tinkering with (breaking) things, so there is that fun.

I have MAYBE 8 icons I have done since figuring out all the fun of this game that I have made that turned out close to what I was going for. And one good thing about this group of folks, everyone is always helpful and there to answer questions. Now if I can convince my air force to STOP attacking its own side...

Re: new discoverys
 

Gives you an idea of the work involved - there are how many units and many have several different camo schemes, no wonder Don has learned a few tricks.
Awesome.

Re: new discoverys
 

At least they look good while they are doing it :)

Re: new discoverys
 

The palette is only as restrictive as you let it be restrictive. There are some combinations of colours would be nice to have >256 but there are many ways around that.

Every colour here is in the game palette

https://i.imgur.com/w4XqobV.png

Re: new discoverys
 

As a person twiddling only with LBMs, I can only admire your work... :)

Re: new discoverys
 

here's one you won't see in the game.

https://i.imgur.com/uOGetHB.png

Re: new discoverys
 

Great icons of aircrafts!

If this is intresting I d'like to mention about two models of aircrafts in Armée de l’air in 1940 which were used by Polish Army in France too.

Koolhoven F.K.58

https://www.passionair1940.fr/Armee%...tos/fk58-5.jpg

The story of this Dutch aircraft only 20 from 50 delivered to France before german invasion. Handed to Polish airforce on exile during battle of France.
Technical schematics
Koolhoven F.K.58
Schematics with painting
France & Dutch liveries


CAUDRON Cr714


https://www.passionair1940.fr/Armee%...n_CR714_C1.jpg

Used only by Polish and Finland

Wikipedia with nice technical schematics
Photos of polish units aircrafts captured by germans
Story of this aircraft model
Technical schematic
Painting liveries

Re: new discoverys
 

Thanks

I'll think about it but they were used only as fighters and YES.... we do have others like that already in the game but I give preference to strafers only when the OOB might be short of a bomb carrying ground attack aircraft for a time or it has some historical significance .


The Koolhoven at this scale is almost identical to the Fokker D.XXI

https://i.imgur.com/MgD2ai9.png

( and is armed the same )which I have rebuilt earlier this year

https://i.imgur.com/L8Ay8ar.png

And Yes... they are only strafers as well but they were already in the OOB's

Re: new discoverys
 

By the way, I noticed, that you had tuned up many trucks - great! :up: :)

Re: new discoverys
 

Here's on you won't see as it was destroyed before it had a chance to be armed and used but I was working on the icon for something to do

CANT z.506

https://i.imgur.com/7qQywFO.png
https://i.imgur.com/xi86Bjc.png
https://i.imgur.com/Ex0RMln.png

Re: new discoverys
 

I love it :up: You even cared about asymetrical chequers ;)

Anyway, Kolhooven and CR 714 were very niche fighters and rather weren't used against ground targets. If we'd like to add an interesting aircraft, than maybe LN 411?... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loire-Nieuport_LN.401

Re: new discoverys
 

Just found an missing photo for Romanian OOB

RWD-14b "Czapla" polish STOL observation aircraft with folded wings
https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-BP0bMD53W...13490801_n.jpg

RWD-14b in Polish service

https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-dA12ElnF0.../rwd.14_11.jpg

Article about
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RWD-14_Czapla


Poland have around 80 of them after 1939 2 were captured by Soviets in Wilno, small number by Germans both sides were not interested and never used them even for testing probably they were scraped by Germans fate of this in Soviet hands in unknown. One interned in Latvia than to Soviets after 1940. One interned by Hungary and used by them
https://www.scalemates.com/products/...9-pristine.jpg

Between 14 to 17 interned in Romania. In April 1943 was mentioned that they have still 14 of them in service. here is source https://dobroni.pl/artykul/rwd-14-czapla/565021

They have no Bomb racks but each of them was equipped in radio device and two MG one 7,92 mm Vickers F in observation cabin for self-defence. And 7,92 mm PWU wz.33 which shots through engine and propeller for attacking other aircraft's or strafing in pilots disposition.

Icons are already done and inside game shp from about 10 years for polish version and Romania green and brown-green camo with yellow crosses. What is missing that is Czapla with Romanian roundels used before April 1941. What is nice that if we have striking version of Czapla on battlefield which will use this one MG in pilots hands similarly too slow German observation craft which now are also in role of ersatz battlefield support.

Re: new discoverys
 

Thanks...... Now entered

Now done

Re: new discoverys
 

I'm late for few hours but also worked RWD-14b "Czapla" (Heron). Romanian with roundels is already done faster by you Don thanks :) I'm slower but there are all posible camo's for that aircraft.

Here parked on Sola AF airbase map
- Romanian before 1941 the same which was done by you earlier
- Hungarian they have only one but camo is intresting and propably they use this aircraft in army
- German captured they never even tested them but have a few.
- One of the three capured by Soviets
- And premiere for SPWW2 one Czapla which was interned in Latvia and used by their AF until repainted with red stars .

<blockquote class="imgur-embed-pub" lang="en" data-id="a/m8PNuMZ" data-context="false" ><a href="//imgur.com/a/m8PNuMZ"></a></blockquote><script async src="//s.imgur.com/min/embed.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
There is this story

Just as addon other polish observation aircraft used by Romanians. In 1939 17 of this aircrafts were interned in Romania and included in their AF http://wp.scn.ru/en/ww15/o/235/12/0. One example was in hands of Soviets one in Hungary and one captured by Slovakia. Propably none of them use this antique aircraft except Romanians.

https://i.imgur.com/2cpusiu.png

Small improvment Lublin in both version R.XIIIG hydro & R.XIIID has capacity 6 bombs 12,5kg insdead 4 like is now in OOB. And has only vikers MG in observation cabin. Where I found this? This is other intresting story about exceptional bombing raid on Free city of Danzig in the day when was incorporated to Third Reich.

I just read about an action done by lone polish R.XIIIG hydro
in 7th September 1939 late evening. His mision was bombing BB Schleswig-Holstein near Westerplatte but when he arrived fighting were finished and batleship already gone in darkness as rest of the city. Westerpllate fall during that day but Lublin crew don't know about this. So they flight over dark streets of Danzig old town and by blind luck or rather by torches lights and loud military music suprised german NSDAP victory parade.
In memories of the crew is mentioned that they relase all 6 small bombs inside happy crowd with flags and torches :shock: and use MG from the rear to diperase them.
The link to whole story google translated from polish
https://translate.google.pl/translat...tnicze-Gdanska

https://www.facinghistory.org/sites/...amp=1470247721

Re: new discoverys
 

Does speed of spotter planes matter?... Accidentally, while checking the Czapla, which was somehow faster than basic Polish spotter Lublin R.XIII, I noticed, that most spotters in the game have speed=1, regardless of their real speed, only few are faster, and Hs 126 is an exception with speed 4 - while not being the fastest plane.

(BTW: Polish 618 LWS Czapla was in fact known mostly as RWD-14 Czapla, as Blazejos mentioned - LWS was only a manufacturer of RWD design)

Here is a quick list that I made, with max speed in km/h (the values are taken from Internet pages and they may vary, but they're enough to give a hint). Cruise speeds, which might be more important, were usually lower by 20-40 km/h in speeds below 200, 40-60 km/h in speeds around 300, and 100-200 km/h in speeds above 500 km/h.

Germany
186 - Fieseler Storch - 175 - 1
187 - Fw 189 Uhu - 374 - 2
410 - He 46 - 257 - 1
589 - Arado Ar-196 - 320 - 3
782 - Hs 126 - 356 - 4

USA:
121 L4 Grasshopper - 140 - 1
360 - Curtiss P-6 - 311 - 1
361 - Curtiss A-12 - 284 - 1
362 - Boeing P-26 - 377 - 1
660 - Douglas O-2 - 216 - 3

USMC
090 - Vought OS2U - 292 - 1
095 - Piper NE-I - <200 - 1
135 - Curtiss P-6 - 311 - 1
136 - Boeing P-26 - 377 - 1
283 - Curtiss Seahawk - 504 - 1
319 - F3F-2 Littlecat - 425 - 1
321 - Douglas OD-l - 216 - 3

UK
114 - Auster Mk.IV - 209 - 1
148 - Lysander - 341 - 1
340 - Hawker Hart - 298 - 3

France
046 - Potez 63.11 - 425 - 3
141 - Auster Mk IV - 209 - 1
231 - L3 Grasshopper - <200 - 1
232 - Potez 25 - 208 - 1
236 - Breguet 19 - 230 - 2
565 - Potez 39 - 249 - 2
566 - Breguet 270 - 236 - 2
567 - ANF Mureaux 110 - 320 - 3

Poland
097 - Auster Mk.IV - 209 - 1
601 - PWS-26 - 201 - 1
603 - Lublin R-XIIIA - 177 - 1
604 - Lublin R-XIIID - 185 - 1
605 - Lublin R-XIIIG - 175 - 1
616 - RWD-8 - 175 - 1
617 - PZL L-2 - 183 - 1
618 - LWS Czapla - 247 - 1
619 - LWS-3 Mewa - 360 - 1
626 - Potez XXV A2 - 208 - 1

Japan ...here we have quick ones:
114 - Mitsubishi F1M - 365 - 4
210 - Aichi D1A - 309 - 3
211 - Aichi E13A1 - 375 - 3
212 - Kokusai Ki-76 - 178 - 2
213 - Yokosuka D4Y1-C - 545 - 6
217 - Nakajima Type91 - 300 - 3
642 - Yokosuka E14Y - 246 - 2
644 - Mitsubishi Ki46 - 604 - 6
645 - Mitsubishi 2MR - 204 - 2
647 - Kawanishi E7K - 276 - 3
648 - Nakajima C6N - 610 - 6
649 - Seversky A8V-1 - 316 - 6

If it's useful, I can check the rest. I can also write down cruise speeds.

Provisionally, I'd suggest speed:
- 1 for aircraft <210 km/h (including Auster, Potez 25 etc with cruise speeds well below 200 km/h)
- 2 for 210-300 km/h
- 3 for 300-400 km/h
- 4 for >400 km/h
I don't think, that any spotter flies much faster performing spotting.

Re: new discoverys
 

Re: new discoverys
 

MOBHAck help

Most are one because most fly under 150km/h and keep in mind, aircraft do not have to fly at their max rated combat speed to fly a spotting mission.


....and we found if the spotter planes fly too fast, then the circle gets too wide and they slide off the map so there is code that limits speed and circle diameter built into the game code- so it matters not one little bit if one has 6 speed....... the game will not fly them at that speed . 3 is the max


The speeds they have work well enough.

Re: new discoverys
 

I could not find this info and was confused seeing, that almost all have speed 1. And does it affect a probability of being shot down?

Thanks for further clarification. It seems I got similar idea, however I thought about 4 :)

As you wish :)
However, some might need small fixes, for consistency ;) The Japanese have no spotter with speed 1, and the Polish with speed above 1, while the oldest US aircraft are the fastest.

Re: new discoverys
 

RWD-8

Most numerous of polish small aircraft's, build in 600 number for civilian areo-clubs and for army as trainer, liaison and many other duties. Was also last aircraft's on polish sky used in October 1939 by unit SGO Polesie in their fights against German and Soviets. In this last battles used not only as observation but also as ersatz support with hand-grenades throw by second pilot like in early days of WWI.

https://i.imgur.com/QbEjJXB.png


Here are

- Latvian - 40 of them escape in 1939 were used there and then captured by soviets
-Czechoslovakian small number sold in 1937 there
- Polish gray trainer used as ersatz spotter in 1939
- SP-BHX typical polish civilian
- Nationalist Spain small number sold to gen. Franco army
- SP-BLL polish civilian from areoclub mobilised in 1939
- Soviet small number captured in Poland 1939 then in 1940 captured from
Latvia
- VQ-PAK two used by Hagana as liaison in fight with Palestinians since 1938 destroyed before creation of IAF
- captured German probably used as trainers they have small number of them
- Romanians escaped from Poland 1939 also with roundels before April 1941 used as a trainers and probably liaisons. They have 57 pieces
- Hungarians have 2 pieces which escaped in 1939 used as a liaisons.

Re: new discoverys
 

In theme of AOP aircraft's

RWD-13
Probably most successfully polish small aircraft. I add also medical evacuation version RWD-13S.

- Polish military army has no RWD-13 in inventory but mobilised them from areoclubs in September 1939

- Polish ambulance version RWD-13S as was used in 1939 such icon
can be usefully in scenario building representing airfields 1939 together with civilian red rwd-13

Then most of this aircraft's escapes to Romania and Latvia. In 1940 Latvia ocupied by USSR so the were captured by soviets. Romania has around 30 RWD-13 and use them on eastern front in Escadrila albă
rest is the history described in books and even movie from 1944

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_Squadron_(Romania)
https://ro.wikipedia.org/wiki/Escadrila_Alb%C4%83

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-RF2LXzQEJK...25282%2529.jpg

Here great documentary movie with English subtitles
https://armed.mapn.ro/escadrila-alba-2625-25

and here link to IMDB
https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0035373/


Yugoslavia buy license and produced their own version Rogozarski RVD-13 also in Medical evacuation variant icon already there. Only one survived invasion on Yugoslavia and was letter used by Croatians,

One aircraft escaped from Hel Peninsula to Sweden and were used in army until 1953 and one to Estonia probably letter in Soviet hands.

20 sold to Gen. Franco and used there in Civil war on Nationalist side as AOP aircraft. There was still used even after 1945.

Germans captured some small number intact and used them as liaisons aircraft.

One was a wedding gift from Poland to Shah of Persia and were used by Iranian air force until 1945

Eight were sold to Brazilian army in 1937 and one is still there in museum.

Hagana buy 2 of them in 1937 and used together with RWD-8 as patrol and liaison aircraft they survived until 1947 and were used in Israel war of independence. Probably first aircraft's of IAF.

Soviets have some number of this aircraft's captured in Poland, Latvia and Estonia but is unknown how they used them.

https://i.imgur.com/GcbzAQb.png?1

Re: new discoverys
 

I may use some of these but not all. The game does not need or use medical evacuation aircraft nor laison and transport aircraft. If it's used for a purpose represented in the game then Maybe it will go in

Re: new discoverys
 

Great that some may be usefully.
To finish subject of polish small utility aircraft's used by military RWD-9 aircraft from which evolved mass produced RWD-13. The same machine but with radial engine. Two of them sold to Spain shortly before civil war. Used there on Republican side in artillery observation duties. This lefts in Poland used as civilian aircraft's and destroyed on airfields in September 1939. Two were also used by Czechoslovakian internal affairs Ministry. Probably then in German hands. Also forgoten Rogozarski RVD-8 license build RWD-8 but with radial engine in Yugoslavia.

https://i.imgur.com/xtAfZlw.png

Re: new discoverys
 

Some addition in subject of aircraft's

RWD-5
Polish tourist aircraft not in use by army but in desperate days of September 1939 some used by military. One escapes after begin interned in Romania and brings orders for encircled Warszawa in last days of September.

RWD-15
Extended better version of RWD-13 production start in early 1939. Around 7 produced one sold to Hagana shortly before war and destroyed on airfield in 1947 during Israeli war of independence. Rest serve in September 1939 in polish army then escaped to Romania used during war with Soviets around Odessa last still was in Romania in 1947.


RWD-17
Intended as a replacement new version of universal trainer to replace RWD-8&PWS26 in polish army. Around 20 produced many in RWD-17W version. Most never reach MDLot in Puck. Instead together with RWD-17bis served as observation aircraft's then evacuated to Romania were there were in service until late forties. Two were interned in Latvia probably then in Soviets hands.

https://i.imgur.com/rNev6tQ.png


Wibault 7C1
French versions also with Naval used on only French aircraft carrier Bearn. Polish license build PZL Wibault 7C1. And Vickers license build 7C1 with radial engine for Chile and with water cooled engine 73 version for Paraguay used in Gran-Chaso war. Paraguay has the same roundel as French so is hard to distinct only by ruder. Hope that Chilean and Paraguayan version maby of same use for scenario creation in green or blue OOB.


PZL Ł-2
Polish observation aircraft used before Lublin finally Lublin R-XIII were chosen because was cheaper to manufacture than Ł-2 and PZL instead start to produce fighters.


PZL P-1 & PZL P-6 & PZL P-8
P-1 was an machine which start the family of famous in early thirties Puławski's fighters. P-6 was an evolution step to use radial engines from which P-7a evolved and P-8 was the last and best but unfortunately in Poland the were never produced water cooled engines so wasn't directed to production by PZL. They were prototypes but will be nice to have them in early thirties to show from which aircraft's polish fighter's evolved.

https://i.imgur.com/6518QGN.png

Re: new discoverys
 

I added the CANT z.506 to the Polish OOB because I already had an Icon for it and the Poles had one ( 1 ) and I thought I'd add it as a "fun" what-if?.

That addition was not intended to inspire a flood of obscure Polish sport planes and prototypes that might or not have been used during WW2. That CANT z.506 was added as an afterthought at the end of my interest in adding more aircraft to the game so if you're having fun building these then by all means continue as I know how addictive it can be ( 3x as many of mine get rejected than get added into the SHP files )........but don't expect they will be added to the master game.

Re: new discoverys
 

Hello

Know that may be tiresome but I try cover all this aircraft's which aren't in polish OOB because were small and not strict military. I don't expect that you found all icons usefully I start to paint them because such activity have fun factor like model building as you mentioned that. Use that what may be usefully for game and simple left the rest they are just propositions.

But still I imagine some scenario for example with Romanian RWD-13 medical evacuation but that will require some hardcoded addition and new class like Landing Aircraft.

RWD-13 may land like now in game code gilder but with different sound of engine and without variation in place of landing just simple land on airfield in exact place. Then player must lead infantry as cover unit and valuable unit with wounded soldiers to aircraft. When wounded are loaded for example we my have in the same place were now hovering button for helicopter a launch button and in next turn our aircraft simple lift out and go out map so made a reverse trip of gilder. I know that such functionality need a change in game code but will be great to have such missions as air landing attack where Ju52 land on airfields and solders instead of using parachute just simple go out from aircraft or evacuate that way from airfield.:happy:

Re: new discoverys
 

We already have them in the OOB... ;)

(albeit PZL Ł-2 has similar icon of Lublin R-XIII, and Wibault has an unknown similar icon - Blazej's is more accurate indeed)

Re: new discoverys
 

I will use what I consider to be appropriate to use and if they upgrade an existing Icon or replace one that was used as a "good enough" a decade ago they will be used

Re: new discoverys
 

Don I really like your icons of Spad S.51 and S.61. So I made some investigation and paint some icons based on yours

Bleriot SPAD S.51 in all variants and engine slighty modified. Also Avia and Nakaima build this aircraft on license
-Spanish Republic
-Turkish
-Japan build by Nakaima
-French
-Soviet (only used in trials)
-Czechslovakia with square national symbols used in between 1920-1930 manufactured by Avia
-Polish
-Spain Nationalists (after war started)
-China
-Spain Republicans (also before war)

https://i.imgur.com/8EXuaUd.png



Bleriot SPAD S.61 straight wings and water-cooled engine only used by Poland and Romania

Bleriot SPAD S.81 only used by France

Bleriot SPAD S.91 used by France and Spain (Republicans after start of civil war)

Re: new discoverys
 

some I may use where they might be useful to the game but I can find no info anywhere on a Nakaima copy of the SPAD 51

Re: new discoverys
 

The saga of modeling obscure aircraft into the game continues.

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/attac...1&d=1606424927

This one actually fills a niche in the early years of the game and it's so ugly it's beautiful. I had some time to kill yesterday so I created one as I hadn't built an icon since the end of the first lockdown this year and I was looking for something "unique"

Re: new discoverys
 

nice icon of Kawasaki Ka 87 really great aircraft. That also remainds me about Soviet Beriev MBR-2

https://topwar.ru/uploads/posts/2019...61_mbr2-14.jpg
https://topwar.ru/uploads/posts/2019...940_mbr2-3.jpg

Main maritime flying boat of Soviet Union. Which before WW2 was declared obsolete but from lack of any better aircraft take part in war on North Sea, Baltic, Black Sea and Pacific. After WW2 all were send to North Korea where was in use until 1952 used to maritime patrol and in night bombing raids on Americans troops on ground. The were practically stealth for radars in interceptors thanks to their wooden construction.

Whole story of this flying boat
https://en.topwar.ru/160022-boevye-s...k-berieva.html

http://wio.ru/tacftr/hydro.htm

Re: new discoverys
 

WIP.............

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/attac...1&d=1606512116


First final


http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/attac...1&d=1606513157

Ver 2

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/attac...1&d=1606522115

Finland

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/attac...1&d=1606522644

Re: new discoverys
 

Fantastic icon and how you done that so nearly instantly.
:up:

If you looked on both previous photos there were two variants of MBR-2 with M-17B engine open cockpit ant without turret in rear and newer variant probably introduced somewhere during war 1941/1942 don't know exactly with M-34NB engine. Table show differences between both versions http://wio.ru/tacftr/hydro.htm looks main difference was in celling and range not in bombs load.

Early variant schematics
https://airpages.ru/draw/mbr2_17.gif

Late variant schematics
https://airpages.ru/draw/mbr2_34.gif

And for the end variant for SPMBT rather than SPWW2 MBR-2 in North Korea can't find any picture but have a nice model
http://massimotessitori.altervista.o...p?topic=1999.0
https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7358/...707d1f8a_o.jpg



Acording to this picture Finland has also an older variant
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pr...TLlnrvSC80SLLw

But also use the new one and was an only operator outside soviet union during WW2 there is also Finland winter camo
http://wp.scn.ru/en/ww2/h/380/78/0
https://i.pinimg.com/originals/52/90...26ef82df9d.jpg

There is if that is interesting specific nice camo use by Northern Fleet something like blue with silver(white)
https://www.mojehobby.pl/zdjecia/5/8/3/1635_rd.jpg

Re: new discoverys
 

:D


http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/attac...1&d=1606579140


That is the Revision. I noticed after building it that the engine was set back too far so they all have been revised to correct that error now.