Is SEIV going the way of the dodo?
 

Just discovered this site, and I noticed earlier that there is a huge increase of SEV posts, and very few SEIV posts going on. Now that SEV is out or about to come out (I'm not sure which), there seems to be a lack of interest in SEIV. i hope not. I may have to play the earlier game for awhile, and I'd hate to see all of the great people who made SEIV such a great game abandon it. I know people in the past have said they wouldn't lose interest, but I can't tell that by the forum. So let's see some more SEIV threads out there.

Re: Is SEIV going the way of the dodo?
 

I pretty much saw this coming.

So much fuss was made over the newer version that I had a hunch SEIV was a dead issue even before anyone wanted to admit it.

Other than just a handful of people, I'm sad to say that SEIV seems like it's pretty much been abandoned. People still stop by and check in, but no real active discussion or contributions anymore, other than by a few diehards like myself.

Re: Is SEIV going the way of the dodo?
 

Half the SE4 stuff goes in the main forum... which is called SE4/5 anyways.

Re: Is SEIV going the way of the dodo?
 

AFAICT, the volume of SE IV traffic hasn't changed all that much; it's been relatively low but fairly steady for quite a long time.

What has changed is that SE V came out, so there's a large volume of traffic about that, making the SE IV traffic seem even smaller by comparison.

Re: Is SEIV going the way of the dodo?
 

Stopping by and reading posts isn't really what I'd call "active discussion or contributions". It honestly looks like nearly everyone has dropped any further efforts towards anything SEIV.

The volume of traffic in the Main forum does remain high, admittedly. But, it just isn't SEIV related much anymore. SEIV discussion has very nearly died around here. There's very little SEIV stuff in the Main forum that is post-release of SEV.

Re: Is SEIV going the way of the dodo?
 

Well, I have not stopped playing SEIV, nor will I. Whether or not others remain interested in the game, that's up to them.

I have not bought SEV because after playing the demo I can see no reason to. SEV just doesn't excite me.

If posts on SEIV are no longer welcome at Shrapnel, that's OK. I will be happy to post somewhere else.

Re: Is SEIV going the way of the dodo?
 

Black_Knyght said:
Stopping by and reading posts isn't really what I'd call "active discussion or contributions". It honestly looks like nearly everyone has dropped any further efforts towards anything SEIV.

It died about 1.5-2 years ago, really. A few things here and there, but not much. It's mostly been on autopilot.

Artaud said:
If posts on SEIV are no longer welcome at Shrapnel, that's OK. I will be happy to post somewhere else.

Why would they ever be unwelcome?

If you want to see more posts about SE4, why not create some new, interesting threads? Posting about dwindling interest isn't going to get anything done.

Re: Is SEIV going the way of the dodo?
 

I'm with you there, <font color="purple">Artaud</font>, though I don't think there will come a time that SEIV post aren't welcome around here. They just won't be commonplace anymore.

I'd tend to disagree a little here, <font color="blue">Fyron</font>. While it did slow down a bit, there were a few serious efforts in Mods and shipsets during that time period.





Bear in mind, I'm not being critical of anyone.

Just noting that there was a lot of commentary by folks that they were not going to bail on SEIV, but suddenly now that SEV came out you can hear the crickets in the SEIV section of the forum... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

Re: Is SEIV going the way of the dodo?
 

Compared to how thing were 3 years ago, the forums have been fairly dead this last year or two... As I said, there were a few things here and there, but not much. A couple mods, a couple shipsets.

Most of the people that said they wouldn't abandon SE4 happen to be old players, with perhaps not much left to talk about themselves. If more of an effort is made to make interesting new threads, I'm sure some of them will continue posting in them.

Re: Is SEIV going the way of the dodo?
 

SE IV is six years old. It has enjoyed an unpresidented run of success in this nitch market we call 4x. It has outlasted all other 4x games to come along in the last decade or so and is still being played, modded, discussed, and hopefuly bought. But like all things good, they come to an end.

Re: Is SEIV going the way of the dodo?
 

Invasion! for SEIV is still in development and has active games. Any PBW games started using Invasion! I will join.

http://www.secenter.org/Invasion052.exe

In fact I will be releasing a new version soon to correct some bugs found during the last PBW game.

Re: Is SEIV going the way of the dodo?
 

I think there is a great difference between forum post numbers and game playing acticity for SE IV:
For most of us SE IV is a well known game where you don't have to many questions anymore to discuss.
However I doubt that I will quit playing SE IV soon. I have my own mod, that I like, the game has no more major bugs and can handle large galaxies and huge ship/unit numbers. Even my largest games take only about 5 minutes for a turn to process at stardate 2500.0 or above.
SE V takes already 20 seconds for a turn processing at stardate 2402.0!

Re: Is SEIV going the way of the dodo?
 

Yeah, Q makes excellent points. There just aren't many questions I still have about SEIV.

I can tell the various mod makers how much I love their work (which I really should do more of), or I can post reports about my current games in progress, if somebody wants to read that stuff. Forums for some games have large sections for after-action reports.

I might try my hand at modding, so maybe I'll ask some questions about that. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...es/biggrin.gif

Re: Is SEIV going the way of the dodo?
 

Loved SEIV, but the mod possiblies for SEV, basically means that any mod effort in SEIV is for most modders is practically a waste of time. SEV will easily surpass what is SEIV at some point. There just need to be some effort on the part of MM, and the modders/players to get it there. SEIV will still have a following, as SEIII did and still does when SEIV was out.

Re: Is SEIV going the way of the dodo?
 

Well, there are some practical downsides to the beefiness of SE5.

25 megs of (beautiful) combat replay. For a 50 ship/150 fighter warppoint assault in GGmod.

Then next turn, 75 more megs of combat replay... Of the survivors chasing fleeing ships that they have no chance of catching, since they have the same speed, and the combat map is infinite.

The turn after that, I ran out of hard disk space... so there was no replay saved.

Compare to SE4, where five megs of combat replay takes only an hour to create, and involves upwards of 700 ships / 10000 fighters.

Re: Is SEIV going the way of the dodo?
 

I disagree. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/smile.gif

Re: Is SEIV going the way of the dodo?
 

I disagree too. I'm still tweaking my SEIV Proportions mod, and am not planning to mod SEV until many things improve.

Re: Is SEIV going the way of the dodo?
 

That's good to hear. I'm staying in SEIV land for a while longer. SEV is just not up to snuff yet.

Re: Is SEIV going the way of the dodo?
 

Well, go play Adamant 0.16 then; it just came out last Thursday! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif

http://adamant.spaceempires.net/

Re: Is SEIV going the way of the dodo?
 

I seldom play SE V either. Right now the bugs make playing it an effort of aggeravation. I am still working on the STM and plan to have a new version avaible by the end of the month including an all new tholian ship ship just for the mod.

Re: Is SEIV going the way of the dodo?
 

Welcome to the 21st century. They have these things now...they call them 3d graphics...and they also have these HD, with GB behind the numbers...

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...es/biggrin.gif

Re: Is SEIV going the way of the dodo?
 

Kana... 100 MB combat replay files are terrible things. How do you play PBEM/PBW with that? You need the replays to see how combat went, to refine ship designs and such.

Re: Is SEIV going the way of the dodo?
 

I don't think it has anything to do though with the 3d graphics. It's probably all of the extra data that has to be saved for each component and the fact that each combat round is ~8x longer than in SE:IV. The retreat feature should help cut down on the sizes though.

Re: Is SEIV going the way of the dodo?
 

I would estimate that SE5 combat is roughly 300x longer.
30 turns, vs 300 seconds at ~30FPS.

In addition, the locations are real numbers instead of single byte coordinates.
Plus there are facings and speeds to record.

Re: Is SEIV going the way of the dodo?
 

Oh I agree...yet I just installed NWN2 on my computer, and that took up 6 GB of space. The 1st patch requires that you have 7 GB free on your HD to even run the patch. I know this isnt the same type of game or anything like that. I'm just saying that games are going to require more of your computer weither its a highend RPG, or a lowend strategy game. I would much rather play a strategy game, but I accept the fact that improvements are going to require more resources. It would be easier, if we didnt have to use a PBEM/PBW format. CivIV for example has a pitboss mode, which allows a free standing game to be logged into and a turn played. Or so I've heard. I have played CivIV MP, and enjoy it for the 3 or so hours you can invest in it at one sitting. You then save the game, and make a new date to play. Yet there are many advantages to the PBEM/PBW style, especially the play when you have time advantage. I'm certainly wowed initially by stunning graphics, but in the end gameplay and depth are always more important. Heck I would be quite happy if SE5 was SE3/SE4 with the added modding options.

Re: Is SEIV going the way of the dodo?
 

That's really what I was hoping for when I'd heard it was being done.

Re: Is SEIV going the way of the dodo?
 

Even a few megs per combat replay is really going to torpedo SE5 PBEM/PBW, and it seems to me like it really shouldn't be necessary. It shouldn't need to record every particle movement. Ideally it could just record the participants, their detailed starting status, formations and orders, and one or more pseudo-random number seeds. The game engine could then regenerate what happened by rolling the dice the same way, unless it's implemented in such a way that what happens actually depends on the machine itself, which might be a bug itself even independent of the replay issue.

Re: Is SEIV going the way of the dodo?
 

I am emailing that to aaron http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif its a good idea.

Re: Is SEIV going the way of the dodo?
 

Kana:
Install size or size on disk is not the issue at all... The issue is having to transfer around dozens of megabytes per turn. It doesn't matter whether you use PBEM or TCP/IP (aka Civ4's pitboss), the sheer amount of data to transfer is staggering. Civ4 can't hardly compare for game file sizes anyways... It has no combat system to speak of, just some comparisons of strength numbers.

PvK:
I certainly hope an entire combat can't be regenerated just by sending a few random seeds...

Re: Is SEIV going the way of the dodo?
 

Fyron:
Why not? In general it can and is a very common practice in other computer games that store replays. Typically only the starting situation, human input, and a few or one random seed number are all that are needed. In a game system like this where there is no human input during the battle, there is no human input to record during the battle.

Re: Is SEIV going the way of the dodo?
 

But would it be the same random number seed on both/all computers that would see the replay? I still kinda like the direction your going...we have all the tools and objects on our individual computers, if we could just transfer a certain amount of data/numbers, that the game engine could then convert to a graphical display that would be the end of the problem...

Re: Is SEIV going the way of the dodo?
 

Yes, the seed value would be in the saved game file and so all computers would have it. The whole battle could be regenerated identically on each computer that way simply by running the same process to show the battle as was used to resolve it in the first place.

Re: Is SEIV going the way of the dodo?
 

Sorry to re-direct this thread back to its original topic http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

I'm just about to start a new PBW SEIV game next week. Had a large number of people still sign up and want to play even after SEV came out.

Re: Is SEIV going the way of the dodo?
 

Bearclaw,

Yes, capnq and I have a fun game going to PBW with 3 other people, as well.

SE4 is far from dead.

And I'm still not fully convinced that SE5 is really even alive yet http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Re: Is SEIV going the way of the dodo?
 

Don't forget about the Adamant Rumble PBW game. Tiny map, lots of players, Adamant Mod, it'll be grand!

Re: Is SEIV going the way of the dodo?
 

Gee, with what the computer I still don't have yet but should be getting soon, it sounds like it won't be able to handle SEV. Ideally, I want a computer that can handle Civ IV, because that's the other new game I want to play whenever I can get a new computer. As long as modders keep on making mods for SEIV, I'll be one happy camper.

Re: Is SEIV going the way of the dodo?
 

Civ4 is far more resource-intensive than SE5. I'd be surprised if you get a comp that can run Civ4 but not SE5. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Re: Is SEIV going the way of the dodo?
 

My system can barely run Civ 4 but it has no problems running SE V.

Re: Is SEIV going the way of the dodo?
 

OMG, the last version worth playing was Civ2.

Civ3 sucked SOOOO hard, no way I'm wasting my money on Civ4.

Sid Meier is as far gone as, uhh, who's that old fart who wrote those three worthless "new" Star Wars films? George Lucas?

Re: Is SEIV going the way of the dodo?
 

Well, the computer I've been waiting since Labor Day for is really a combination of my computer and this guy's old computer. He thinks he was using Win98 on it, so that's why I'm think I won't be able to play SEV. I won't know until he actually delivers the final product (taking all of my working parts and putting it in this other computer).

But the other day, I went to a Game Stop and actually held SEV in my hands. It felt strange, since all of my previous Malfador/Shrapnel Games purchases in the past have been ordered on-line. I still want to buy it, but I'm going to hold off until I get a better computer (crossing my fingers every time I play the lottery http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif).