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Hi, actually im in the SEAsian oob consultant but i have some input concerning other region
the MiG-27 and Su-17 had long been withdrawn from russia service but in SPMBT they are still available till 2020 (at least the MiG-27)....
there is some talk about it in ACIG (you must register first)
http://acig.org/forum/viewtopic.php?...sc&start=0

same case with T-64 but long time ago when i post about it in spmbt (DOS) forum there were some RUssian fanatist saying NOOOO T-64 WILL LAST FOREVER and slam, some ppl shut my mouth up http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...s/rolleyes.gif
The reason there is no pic of T-64 in chechnya is because they no longer with rusarmy (russian only use old stuff T-62, T-72B and all other oldies here cept some msta)

Re: OOB-11 Russia

Mig-23s and 27s were withdrawn in the 90's as well as su-17s, leaving Russia without a serious strike fighter. Perhaps the reason why they're still available is, that many were not scrapped but are kept in open air storages theoretically as reserves. Same thing with many tanks I guess.

Another matter is if the craft remain airworthy or not. I guess they could be resurrected even a couple of years after being mothballed but at 2020; no way.

Re: OOB-11 Russia

Quote:

Kone said:
Mig-23s and 27s were withdrawn in the 90's as well as su-17s, leaving Russia without a serious strike fighter.

Aren't Su-27 modified for precision guided munition not enouth ? And I think I've read Mig-29 got modification too.

Re: OOB-11 Russia

For MiG-29, the SMT and UBT upgrade programs are offered, but were at test stage at early 2000's propably remaining so...

Su-27SM multirole (PGM capable) variant became operational just before the end of 2003 when a few (some say 5) of them entered service. Estimated number of these in service at the moment is around two dozen (Seven entered service 2004). Avionics are said to be better than in Su-27MKK or MKI export versions.

Flanker family in service with Russia

I tried to find out which versions of the Su-27 family are really in service with the Russian air force. Seeing through the intense hype and the circus of alphabets describing different models is not easy though...

Let's see...

Su-27 / Su-27S - the basic "vanilla". Entered to service in the mid-80's, Some sources say early 80's though. Around 350 are in service. Avionics are obsolete and the plane lacks multirole capabilities. It can carry 4000kg of bombs and unguided rockets. Built-in GSh-30-1 30mm cannon with 150 rounds.

Su-27UB - 2 seat trainer version of Su-27. Combat capable. Entered service around 1987. Armament similar to the Su-27.

Su-27SM - A mid-life upgrade to the Su-27. First 5 entered service 26th of December 2003. Some sources say all basic Su-27's are subject to this upgrade, but due to financial reasons some 40 - 50 planes (one regiment) are planned at the first phase. Su-27SM is multirole capable all-weather craft. Armament options include 1 x KAB-1500Kr or 4 x KAB-500Kr, Kh-31A&P, Kh-59M, Kh-29T&TE&L and dumb weapons up to 8000 kg. Upgrade includes glass cockpit, far better onboard computing capabilities and targeting pod ability. Lack of money have however caused some compromises in the programme, like leaving the radar unchanged at least on some craft.

Su-27PU / Su-30 - Despite the information in many internet sources, the Su-27PU is not a multirole aircraft. It is derived from Su-27UB as a long range interceptor and engagement leader. Only 5 were built before the program was terminated in the early 90's. Offensive armament as for Su-27. Sukhoi developed the Su-30M multirole variant none of which have entered service in Russia.

Su-27K / Su-33 - Navalized version of Su-27 with structural modifications to fit carrier service. Production began in 1990 and the first patch of 24 craft was also the last. Avionics were upgraded for over water air combat but offensive capabilities remained the same as on Su-27. Upgrade programs are planned, but they will propably be less radical than the Su-27 -> Su-27SM program.

Su-27IB / Su-32FN/MF / Su-34 - The long range strike versions with re-designed forward fuselage. Su-32FN and MF are naval strike variants. The Su-34 is the main version and is designed to replace elder strike, recce and EW planes in service. The Su-27IB is a top priority project for Russian air force along with the Su-27SM modernization. Su-27IB carries a payload of 8000 kg and is compatible with virtually all present and future Russian tactical attack munitions both smart and conventional. However the production has been delayed, again because of financial problems. There are reports of one aircraft being combat-evaluated in Chechnya in 1999. Possible service entry in 2006.

Su-27M / Su-35 - There are reports of 3 aircraft of this "Super Flanker" -type entering service in the 90's. Unlikely to be operational however. Su-35 acted as a technology demonstrator and paved way for Su-27SM upgrade package. Is offered for export.

Main sources were Airforces Monthly and Combat Aircraft magazines plus some net sources. I only trusted websites which referred to "reliable sources" such as Jane's.

According to Rostvertol PLC, the Mi-28N entered joint trials with company's representatives and military specialists July this year. Production rotorcraft should enter service 2006. An entry date for optimists... Jane's says the test programe will take 2-5 years according to funding.

The Ka-50's night fighting capabilities remain doubtful. Many sources indicate that the early production Ka-50 is a daytime only helicopter. The "second stage" in the program is the Ka-50N equipped with NVG and modern FLIR with high quality image processing. Ka-50N may have been axed in favor of Ka-52.

*oops...fixed a confusing error mi-28n, not 26*

Further note: There's some speculation about the Ka-50's Shkval sighting system incorporating LLLTV for night targeting. Some even say it's high end. On the other hand, the army considers the vessel daytime only. Whatever the case, the night vision value should definitely be below 40.

Not air-related but obat11 relevant

Russian medium artillery seems to get higher ROF than comparable other-world systems;

All 152mm howitzers I spotted get ROF 5, world standard seems to be 4, even the FH77A with advanced loading assistance machinery and sliding breech block instead of the slower and more common screw block gets 4...

Is there a reason why Russian medium tube artillery gets this advantage?

Other proposed corrections

-PT-76B should be available until 2005 or 2010. http://www.army.lv/photos/1638.jpg A picture of a PT-76B in chechnya
-T-72BM, T-72BM1, and T-72BV should be available until 2020.
-T-80U and T-80BV should be available until 2020
-T-80UM1 Bars has not been adopted by the russian army, but perhaps can be added from 2006 or 2007 as a hypothetical one.
- http://world.guns.ru/grenade/gl04-e.htm RPG-29 should be available from 1989
- http://www.shipunov.com/eng/str/grenades/rpg27.htm RPG-27 perhaps to replace RPG-18/22 in elite units such as naval infasntry and VDV starting in the 1990s
- http://warfare.ru/?catid=245&linkid=1785 BMP-T tank support vehicle
-Khrizantema ATGM is not available as a manportable launcher, only in the BMP-3 chassis

Re: Not air-related but obat11 relevant

Quote:

Backis said:
Russian medium artillery seems to get higher ROF than comparable other-world systems;

All 152mm howitzers I spotted get ROF 5, world standard seems to be 4, even the FH77A with advanced loading assistance machinery and sliding breech block instead of the slower and more common screw block gets 4...

Is there a reason why Russian medium tube artillery gets this advantage?

Run tests with different ROF for that weapon in the game and tell me what you discover

Don

Re: Not air-related but obat11 relevant

isn�t the t64 more modern than t72 ?

i read the t72 is cheaper version of t64
and the t80 is a better version of t64...
also i wonder why have t72 rocket launchers ?

i read that t72 has no rocket launcher ( maybe
added in later models ?? )....

also is it true that in soviet tank divs only
about 1/3 of the tanks had rocket launchers ?
( complete divs of these tanks were much to expensive )...

In game Soviet Tunguska have 2x2 30 mm AA guns but really have 2x30 mm guns

No, Tunguska has 4 guns.they are fitted in pair. It just look like it has just 2.

http://www.shipunov.com/eng/kbp/news.htm BMD-4, basically a BMD-3 with a BMP-3M turret. First 5 entered service in 2004, 10 more this year.

what about pantsyr status ?

It was ordered by the UAE (Gulf States in terms of SPMBT) but it will not be fielded in Russia.

Re: Not air-related but obat11 relevant

The T-64, T-72 and the T-80 have been built by separate companies. The T-72 (Morozov Design Bureau)was less expensive and complicated than the T-64(Kharkov Transport Machine Plant). The T-64 has not been exported. Which could mean that it was technologically more advanced than the T-72. If I am not mistaken, the primary use for the T-64 was for the 'defense' of Russia. I am not sure if that means it was superior though. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

The T-80 (Leningrad Kirov Plant)was developed to further the T-64. It is more an upgraded T-64 than a T-72. Sort of like the T-90 developed from the basis of the T-72. I really think that the T-64 was far more advanced than anything that NATO developed during that period.

There has been no further developments of the T-64, which numbers were close to 8000. Which could mean that it is being phased out like the M-60 tanks have, here in the US. I doubt it would be a front line tank.

There are no rocket launchers on any tanks. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

This is the status:

In mid-2000, the United Arab Emirates signed a contract worth US$734 million with the KBP Instrument Design Bureau for final development and subsequent delivery of 50 96K6 Pantsyr-S1, the export version. Under the terms of this contract, the KBP will complete development within two years and in the following three years, deliver the systems in three batches. This consists of 12 systems in 2003, 24 in 2004 and the remainder in 2005. It is believed that 26 will be on a wheeled chassis and 24 on a tracked chassis.

Whoa! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

The Morozov plant has actually developed a pair of T-64 deep modernizations, but it is now in Ukraine rather than Russia.

I never knew that the sams launchers on the tunguska were independent (4 launchers x 2) can it track numerous targets and still engage

IS-2 Bunker on the Kurile Islands

http://img136.imageshack.us/img136/4374/kurilis2jq2.jpg

Image of an IS-2 being used as a static defense bunker on the Kuril Islands.

http://img136.imageshack.us/img136/2835/blownupmv5.gif
200% zoomed in view of my icon with turret on top.

Re: IS-2 Bunker on the Kurile Islands

Nice find!
AFAIK tehy were stationed as well along the Chinese borders... After all, 122mm shell would make enough mess on a Type-59/69 even without penetrating it...

So the T-64 is in fact way superior to the T-72 models throughout most of its history, the 80's versions of the T-72 caught up in some respects.

Essentially the T-64B had an automated modern fcs (much like the ones on the M1 and Leo2) (See my post outside of this on it) while the T-72 had a more "primitive" one (comperable to western fcs of the time.

I would propose to increase the FCS values of the T64/T80 series to reflect this. Also stabilization was better compared to the T-72 series. So once again an upgrade might be in order.

Also the T-64 series used composite armor, and while it is reflected in the game to an extent I Think it may be underepresented.

Up to date Russian Arms Acquistions.

Summarizing from a russian arms fanatic friend of mine:

The 77th Naval Infantry Brigade (Caspian Flotilla) has received upgraded PT-76Bs with the new AU-220 Turret, along with upgraded MT-LBs (MT-LBM-6MA with BTR-80 turrets / MT-LBM-6MB with BTR-80A turrets).

The AU-220 turret is:

http://www.burevestnik.com/images/pt_b.jpg

Contains a 57mm cannon with a ROF of 120 rounds per minute, 20-round ready to use magazine, 72 round mechanized stowage system, PKTM 7.62mm coaxial with 2,000 rounds as is standard, fully stabilized, advanced FCS etc.

The PT-76s were written off several years ago so the upgrade basically takes their steel hull and replaces everything- the upgrade is done at the plant that produces BMDs so besides the turret the upgrade involves new engine, transmission etc etc with a lot of BMD and other components. Service life after upgrade is 25-30 years.

On to other things:

Linka

An airborne regiment will be supplied with advanced BMD-4 airborne fighting vehicles by the end of the year, Russia's defense minister said Wednesday.

"I am convinced that before the end of this year, an entire battalion in your division will be provided with BMD-4s," the Sergei Ivanov said addressing servicemen of the 106th Airborne Division.

Speaking at the end of a tactical exercise on a test site about 200 kilometers (125 miles) southeast of Moscow, Ivanov, who is also a deputy prime minister, said the 137th Airborne Company had received eight BMD-4 AFVs in June, which had tripled its firepower.

They've also selected the new tactical UAV that will equip each recon company in an airborne division:

Link to russian page

http://www.redstar.ru/2006/08/02_08/22.jpg

Each folding aircraft weighs 2.8kg and has a wingspan of 1.47 m (stored in the container 0.9x0.5x012m). The complete system includes 2 aircraft and a command post, totalling 12kg in 3 bags, carried and handled by two soldiers. The controlled range is 10km, preparation time is 5 minutes, electric motor is recharged during 45 minutes (from car or solar or any other battery), the flight time is 1 hour 15 minutes at 65-105 km/h and 100-3000 m. Currently only fair weather, but they're designing one with a thermal imager.