Gandalf\'s Random Circus
 

I dont know how many looked at things like the GoAround http://www.techno-mage.com/~dominion/

This is definetly a different kindof game for Dom 1. There are places on the map that
you will HAVE to go around. And you have a definate advantage in that area
over the stupid AI so feel free to crank up their settings. It was generated with the dommap program
http://www.ont.com/~keldon/dommap.html (thanks Keldon) The .map file was modified with my program. Sorry, no executable on that yet although there is a neat java utility at
http://members.aol.com/mp0werd/web/DomMapGen.html

ANYWAY.... Im thinking about adding another Category to that site for a daily creation. A Randomz map. Well Id actually be better off probably making it 3 for S/M/L. Ive still never found anything I liked for compiling my source code for a randomizer (write me as Gandalf on techno-mage if you want to discuss that).

The way I picture it is having randomzs.zip with a small map TGA and MAP. Same for medium and large maps. The routine would regenerate the randomized MAP file and re-zip the file each day. That much I could do in a day if I just chose a half-decent random generated TGA to use.

Im not sure tho whether to work at adding a random name generator for each of the provinces? Or getting the routine to accept a fresh randomly generated TGA each day. Im kindof getting back into this for preparation of Dom 2 with its new map features.

Comments? Maybe this could have been a poll...
1) Good idea and I want names
2) good idea and I want fresh maps
3) sounds ok, I might take a look at it
4) dont waste your time you are the only one interested in wildly randomized games where the independents kick everyones tail

[ October 09, 2003, 17:43: Message edited by: Gandalf Parker ]

Re: Gandalf\'s Random Circus
 

OK maybe that was unclear. I keep forgetting how much stuff was so deeply discussed already in the newsGroups.

Some variations Ive tried are.....

Each province gets 1 extra commander randomly selected from the entire set of units, monsters, summons, and pretenders. There is also a random number such as 4-9 troops assigned to that commander. The troops are selected randomly but very close to the numeric of the commander so that chances are high of getting different but the same "kind" of unit as the commander. Random magic equipment is also assigned to the commander. NOTE: this includes the players home province so the early announcements of prophets are VERY interesting to read. And sometimes you REALLY luck out on what you get to start turn 1 with.

A variation is the same as above but with an effort to create 2 different ways of doing the random assignment. An initial random decides if the entire set including summons and pretenders is used, or a smaller set of units which include fairly standard independent units. This way the really big surprises are more rare.

Another variation included the above PLUS created special provinces all over the map. The province gained a randomly selected special race such as woodsman, lizardman, raptor. Then a random number decided whether to give the province a temple, lab, random type of castle, or any combination including a possibility for all 3.

Yet another variation included all of the above and created a special opponent. In this case I took Man and made him the "King of Independents". Half of the special provinces that were placed were given to Man to own right from the start of the game. To balance that he was given a deity which would die instantly and pretty much stay dead the whole game. Also his special home sites were deleted so he received none of the special Avalon units. This left him with a large adequate selection of units but none that were much different than the independent province units.

After forgetting what I had done and accidentally selecting Man to play on that map, I decided it was kindof fun to start out that way. Now a new variant is to have each race start with randomly selected special provinces all over the map. I havent tried it yet but Im considering 6-12 provinces. Possibly being even as far as how many have castles, how many have temples and labs. On a small or medium map this could be referred to as a "fast start" random game.

Further variant can, as I mentioned, include names for each province that are pronouncable and not duplicated.

Comments now?

[ October 10, 2003, 01:21: Message edited by: Gandalf Parker ]

Re: Gandalf\'s Random Circus
 

I'd be in favor of it. The more maps available, the more options, and that ain't bad!

I also like the idea of a random name assigner. The maps would be rather sterile if they were either just numbered provinces or had the exact same names over and over again.

So, I guess that means I choose "1" from the list of options. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon6.gif

Re: Gandalf\'s Random Circus
 

Some of those variants sound very interesting to play with also I must note.

Re: Gandalf\'s Random Circus
 

Sounds really interesting. I will vote for 1 as well.

Re: Gandalf\'s Random Circus
 

good ideas Gandalf, and your utility can be the start to a random map generator (you will have to deal with the RMG cult then).

Re: Gandalf\'s Random Circus
 

Oh Im a charter member of RMG Cult.

Actually my programming level is not up to the full RMG. I can do the simple text things in sloppy and embarrasing basic code but not a TGA file. But since the source code for DomMap is available Im hoping that someone will take that and modify it otherwise my stuff will be stuck in Dom 1 mode.

I suppose I could make a Dom 2 Version for whatever is the biggest map that comes with the game but that would get old. Eventually someone would have to create a random tga generator.

[ October 10, 2003, 12:02: Message edited by: Gandalf Parker ]

Re: Gandalf\'s Random Circus
 

WOW did no one ever tell me that my "small" maps and my "medium" maps were the same size? I didnt ever bother to look myself since I prefer huge maps.

OK the large maps try to get to 450 land and 50 sea provinces. It usually fails ending up with the 50 sea and around 375-380 land. The mediums were 140 land and 20 sea (basically 10 provinces each with a little over). The small maps NOW are 70 land and 10 sea. This basically gives 5 provinces each with alittle over if all the races are playing. I will take a look at them but that seems really tiny to me.

The problem is that Im not the right person to judge. I dont like the little maps. Keep in mind that these are for the random-luck games. Other people are manually creating the balanced chess-board style maps.

How does that seem to you people? So how does 500, 160, 80 provinces sound as map sizes?
http://www.techno-mage.com/~dominion...humbnails.html
http://www.techno-mage.com/~dominion...humbnails.html
http://www.techno-mage.com/~dominion...humbnails.html

[ October 12, 2003, 15:01: Message edited by: Gandalf Parker ]

Re: Gandalf\'s Random Circus
 

Ugh, 500 sounds BIG. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Maybe adding something in between 500 and 160, like 250-300?

Re: Gandalf\'s Random Circus
 

Hmm, by looking at those maps I'd say you could almost use them in Dom II without any changes. The only thing that could be the problem are those dots in upper left corner. The rest seems to be just fine. If you could make RMG that wont make those dots you could have Dom II RMG. At least it looks that way to me.

[ October 12, 2003, 15:14: Message edited by: Daynarr ]

Re: Gandalf\'s Random Circus
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Ive been considering trying to write a ghost script or a gimp script to do that. In its simplest form it could just overwrite the first 16 bits with a color for borders?

Quote:

The rest seems to be just fine. If you could make RMG that wont make those dots you could have Dom II RMG. At least it looks that way to me.

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">There is source code available Online for the generator that created those maps. There are things that Dom 1 filled in automatically if it was missing in the MAP file that Dom 2 (for some reason) isnt going to be as forgiving about. But it should be fairly easy for someone to modify the old code. I think its written in C. If some C programmer doesnt eventually take a look at it maybe I will. Finding where the first 16 dots are put in and snipping that, then finding where it writes lines for the MAP file and adding a few, might not need real understanding of the language.

Re: Gandalf\'s Random Circus
 

There are minor things to think about though. Dom II doesn't detect whether a province is sea/large/small/mountain/forest or not. So these things would have to be entered in the map file as well.

And the reason Dom II is less good at guessing things is of course that it allows the artist much greater freedom when desining the maps. That 10 color limitation was a bit too much spectrum 48 for its own good.

Re: Gandalf\'s Random Circus
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">So the maps generated by the dommap program cannot be used in Dom 2, but the TGA's it makes could be?

Re: Gandalf\'s Random Circus
 

Games Im having fun with now.....

Fast Start: Everyone gets 7 extra provinces besides the home province. Also my usual extra random commander with extra random bodyguards and extra random magic items. The first round becomes very important because the game automatically attacks extra provinces in the first round. You have to decide which provinces will do you the most good and beef up their defence in order to keep them.

Blind Luck: Luck can be good or bad. Im having alot of fun with this. Its about as extreme as I think I can get. Just about EVERYTHING has a CHANCE to be randomized. It runs thru the entire 424 provinces (I like big maps) and then goes thru each thing that can be randomized, randomly decides whether or not to pop it in there, and if it does then it picks a randomer for that item. The first is whether to mark the province with a #land or a #setland (land blanks the province before adding). Then comes population type, owner, and defence. Then whether to add structures such as castle, temple, lab. Then a chance for minor commander with minor equip and units. Then a chance for a major command with major equip and units. I havent worked in sites yet. So any province might have any combo of the things above. It might be completely empty and free to the fist person. It might have all the structures and alot of extra units. It might be owned by one of the races including you. These things are set just high enough that nearly every province gets something.

Of course the funnest thing about these is that if its not a feasable start I can always run the script again for a whole new layout.

[ October 14, 2003, 14:44: Message edited by: Gandalf Parker ]