Re: Nation - Tomb Kings - Released!
 

I was also curious, to the other people that have played this nation, what bless(es)/chassis did you use?

Jazzepi

Re: Nation - Tomb Kings - Released!
 

Okay. I've decided to leave Immortals at 2 death gems for the moment - while they can be utterly deadly in defense, it's true that defense isn't the way to win and they do require a large investment of time. They're also effectively more expensive since the Tomb Kings that summon them are going to cost more.

New version coming in a few moments...

Re: Nation - Tomb Kings - Released!
 

I've just released v1.00 (see the first post).

Changes:

- Asp archers and Buried both slightly more expensive; the Buried also lost a point of defense and a point of MR.
- Tomb Kings gain a guaranteed earth pick, but now cost 500 gold (up from 420). They may be the most powerful mages in the Middle Age now. Frequent access to E2 is a major boost to the nation.
- Anubites are faster but have slightly lower strength.
- Servants of Horus are much improved - they gained no fewer than 4 to attack between their weapon (+3 - it is magic after all) and their own skill (+1). They also gained a point of MR and another point of reinvig. They are probably still inferior to the anubites (certainly they lose in tests with even numbers of each) but are potent demon killers. They are also now summoned in groups of 20, so you basically summon a legion rather than faffing around with little groups.
- The nation now gets an additional fire and earth gem from its home sites, making it inferior only to Pythium for initial gem income. This should make it easier to use the national summons, which are pretty key if people start using Wither Bones or something on you.
- The national holy spells are *much* more effective. Each casting of the MR-negates spells effectively casts them 3 times on top of each other. As a result they tend to stick pretty well, meaning that it is very worthwhile to bring along contingents of priests to get your armies buffed up. That was a design goal from the beginning which in fact hadn't really worked out. That should also serve to make the non-sacred national troops more attractive.
- Servant of Set is a bit cheaper (8 gems rather than 10)
- Ushabtis are slightly harder to research (Ench 4 from, I think, 3). However, they remain very cheap (12 gems) and once you have one you will be completely elephant-proof.
- Bone scorpions gain two points of MR (-> 16), but are harder to summon (D5). These are vicious things.

Hopefully these changes will lead to lots more choice in what options you can exploit, and make things feel more balanced.

Re: Nation - Tomb Kings - Released!
 

Also I'm terrified to see it's almost a year and a half since I released this. Eek!

Re: Nation - Tomb Kings - Released!
 

Jazzepi - lots of blesses are quite interesting. W9 (and even W9F9) make your Burieds extremely vicious. W9E9 is curiously effective in making them tougher, and is also good for your Ushabtis. D9 (or D9W9) can make your Asp Archers very nasty - it can be hard to avoid their poison entirely, and with a high death bless any damage tends to cause an affliction. Astral is good for resisting banishment, and W9S9 can make your Burieds very hard to hurt. Nature is fairly useless since nothing can regenerate and nothing flees anyway. Blood might be reasonably useful, at least as a side effect if you wanted a Blood Fountain or something as your pretender.

I think now, though, you could reasonably opt for a low-bless strategy and go for scales. Your troops are all pretty decent once buffed by your priests. The fact that they never tire nor flee can make them pretty effective, and Strength of the Tomb means they can hurt armoured things.

I think there are quite a lot of different options on what you might want to focus one, which I'm pleased with. I'll be interested to see what you go for.

Re: Nation - Tomb Kings - v1.00 released (March 2009)!
 

I don't know if this is intentional or not, but when I play the mod with CBM and the mod installed, there are two Son of the Sun with "no description available". Both cost 0 points. One of them has Awe +1 from the start.

Also, why the heck do the mages with no armor, ~and~ no weapons, cost 3 resources?

Jazzepi

Re: Nation - Tomb Kings - v1.00 released (March 2009)!
 

Sounds like an id conflict. Unless llama specifically went through and checked it against the latest CBM, that'll happen.

You should be able to fix it yourself easily enough though.

Re: Nation - Tomb Kings - v1.00 released (March 2009)!
 

I think there are two Sons of the Sun in CBM - I'm pretty sure I've seen it with just CBM and no other mods in place. I think one has F and one has S, or something similar.

Re: Nation - Tomb Kings - v1.00 released (March 2009)!
 

Well, in Warhammerama I went with a W/S bless on an oracle, with high order, sloth, and magic. I don't remember for the other scales. It was a small game vs lizards, ogres, and rats, and I was terrified of wither bones, plus I figured there had to be a significant amount of banishment spam that would be coming at me. And the lizards have tons of powerful priests, so the extra magic resistance seemed like a very good idea (and most definitely was). My buried weren't quite good enough killers to take out ogres or E10 lizard temple guards, but sulphur haze worked well to kill both of those. And by the time I was fighting the lizards I had cloud of death, supplemented by the occasional shadow blast... all of which the buried are almost completely immune to.

I haven't tried any other bless with them really, W/S just seemed the best fit for them to me, plus it's cheap. I can see fire being quite devastating though. If you can get by using an earth bless it would be great for your tomb kings later on. And death would be nice as well. If only sorcerors were sacred, I can only imagine how delightful it would be watching your enemies become horrifically afflicted in a giant cloud of burning vapors.

And with immortals, keep in mind that they have map move 3. Sure, I was playing a small game where I had only a fairly small amount of land to fight in. I actually was never more than 3 provinces from the front, I think. But even without survival skills 3 map move should get just about anywhere pretty quickly. I would also think, if you had 100 blessed, well-buffed immortals you could kill just about any tartarian you could find. And do it again and again. But having them basically limited to a defensive role is a pretty significant mark against them.



In any case, this update imo sounds like a pretty significant boost to the tomb kings overall. I'll have to get a game or two going :)

Re: Nation - Tomb Kings - v1.00 released (March 2009)!
 

I'm just about to upload another mini-update, v1.01.

Changes:

- I appear to have gone mad while balancing the Ushabti. They have now lost 2 points of protection and 1 of MR, the ritual blade has 1 attack rather than 2 and they cost 14 rather than 12 gems. They're still excellent. The Ushabti Avatars have gone up to 40 gems (from 30). They are still quite awesome and pretty cheap (considering you don't need GoH or GoR), and could easily be a strategy in themselves I reckon.
- Buried now cost 22.
- Tomb Priest cost -> 120 (from 100).
- High Priest cost -> 240 (from 210). The priests are better now that their buffs are so much more effective. Acolytes have stayed the same because they've not been improved, and their main cost is the opportunity cost of not hiring someone else anyway.
- Buried Sorcerors cost -> 200 (from 180). They were always meant to be expensive.
- The Gilded Scorpion now costs 150 design points, down from 175. He's extremely powerful, but short on slots.
- Fixed the Sons of the Sun. The problem was mysterious but I just worked around it.
- Fixed all the other non-standard pretenders so that they have CBM stats. Otherwise they would have vanilla stats even under CBM, because they're actually copies of the pretender units.

So I guess generally this update is a gentle nerf. v1.00 was probably a bit of a buff though, so hopefully they remain strong. The overall change has been a slight increase in expense and an improvement in magic and summons, which is probably to the nation's benefit overall.

Re: Nation - Tomb Kings - v1.00 released (March 2009)!
 

Comments welcome, of course.

Re: Nation - Tomb Kings - v1.00 released (March 2009)!
 

Well, most of those changes don't bother me really. For example, the change to the buried. They're still only 8 gold more than your recruitable elites. The high priest change and the ushabti sound painful though. That was a pretty heavy nerf to the ushabti, they're not nearly as good now. I'm not sure it's a good idea to use them without a bless in this iteration. They already are large, expensive magic beings who if I recall can only regenerate health in a lab. It seems it's getting to be hard to use them efficiently. I don't suppose they are immune to petrification?

The high priest change will slow yor expansion down a bit and make an already expensive nation even more expensive. I'm not sure how much this particular change will hurt you. Maybe you'll actually want to create some of the lower level priests every once in a while.

Re: Nation - Tomb Kings - v1.00 released (March 2009)!
 

Right! Ridiculously I'm just about to upload yet another little update, v1.02. This is planned to be the last change again for a while, so Jazzepi and anyone else using them in MP can settle to these final settings. Apologies for the multiple versions. Balancing can be tricky, and it makes your brain go funny.

Changes:
- Ushabti regained 20 natural prot and 16 MR. Their Ritual Blade also gained a couple of points to attack. However, they still cost 14 gems and still only have one attack. After I compared them to the crusher I realised that just being very tough was not a major feature, and there had to be some good reason to summon them rather than a crusher. They're meant to be a national perk after all.
- Ushabti Avatars gained *much* more interesting paths. When you summon one now you'll have no idea what you're going to get, but you can be fairly certain it'll be useful. Also they're not restricted to the national paths - the old gods they served had all manner of powers - so they can be used for diversification at a (very expensive) pinch. They're also much less likely to have weak astral, so they can't be trivially nailed by Magic Duel. They're not very good at water though. The river gods were among the first to be destroyed.
- Ushabti avatars had broken morale, fixed.
- Ushabti are now poor amphibians.
- Ushabti and Anubites gained #stonebeing, so needn't fear petrification.
- The Asp Bow had no resource cost, fixed.

Comments welcome as always.

Re: Nation - Tomb Kings - v1.00 released (March 2009)!
 

Never let it be said that I'm not easily swayed by comments rdonj. :) The Ushabti should be worthwhile again now. They are super nasty against the AI, but I guess a player should still be able to bring them down fairly easily. I hope so anyway. Well, they are much less tough than Crushers, and I've never heard anyone say that they're overpowered.

I think I'm pleased with the gold cost increases though. It should be an expensive nation I think. And if you end up sometimes recruiting the cheaper priests, that's very good news for variety!

Re: Nation - Tomb Kings - v1.00 released (March 2009)!
 

I hope you're updating the mod on llamaserver each time you make these changes ;)

Jazzepi

Re: Nation - Tomb Kings - v1.00 released (March 2009)!
 

Bah! The priests and mages still have 3 resources instead of 1 ;)

Jazzepi

Re: Nation - Tomb Kings - v1.00 released (March 2009)!
 

You have eased my panicked state of mind now as to the use of ushabti. I'm going to download the new, new, new! version and see about playing around with ushabti and ushabti avatars a bit if I get the chance. I especially enjoy the #stonebeing tag being placed on them, as it makes much sense. I still don't know how pleased I am with the gold changes, but I do understand why they're there. I suppose it's also very warhammery of them, with the small, commander-heavy armies the game tends to sprout.

Re: Nation - Tomb Kings - v1.00 released (March 2009)!
 

Yep, updated on the LlamaServer.

The resource cost is because of the difficulty of awakening them. See the flavour text for the ordinary spearmen - expensive incenses and balms are required, explaining both the gold and resource cost. Because few of the troops have much armour, I found that without this it was just too easy to suddenly mass armies, which didn't fit with my picture of the nation at all (the priests tirelessly working to reawaken the ancient armies over many months).

I hope the gold cost won't cause commander-heavy armies! The intention was to generally slightly nerf the nation without discouraging the recruitment of the national troops. I'm always wary of creating a super-nation (it's easy to do without realising), and Nehekhara has a number of national strengths. I think it has a number of weaknesses too though, so I'm content with the balance now, although if people think it's strong or weak I'd be glad to hear (I won't change it in the short term though, as stated, to provide some stability).

Re: Nation - Tomb Kings - v1.00 released (March 2009)!
 

Well, not commander-heavy for dominions really. But with the high upkeep you have to pay on most of your commanders, it will limit how many units you can buy, leading to smaller armies as people will almost always choose mages over armies when their cash is running low. They'll be more or less like any other dominions nation in that regard, just faster than most with the heavy reliance on tomb kings.

Re: Nation - Tomb Kings - v1.00 released (March 2009)!
 

Well, most of the commanders are sacred, so the upkeep shouldn't be too bad. The change was an extra 1 gold/turn for the High Priest. So I think they'll be okay.

Re: Nation - Tomb Kings - v1.02 released (March 2009)!
 

Hmm... I'd always overlooked the Tomb Princes before, but with an e9/w9 bless they can be rather shockingly effective at expanding :) Until it runs into an indy fire mage who casts fire darts once, gets lucky and nails you for 10 damage, and then the lingering fire damage kills him. Curse you, lucky indy fire mage!

Also, I guess I was overreacting a bit to the gold cost. I just am remembering back to warhammerama where I had like 1000 upkeep, with mostly just sacred commanders and my immortals.

Re: Nation - Tomb Kings - v1.02 released (March 2009)!
 

Right! Madness! I appear to be gently cracking up and thinking about this mod too much. As such I'm just about to upload a v1.03. This time I promise I won't release any more for a bit, and sorry everyone for the ridiculous flurry.

- I was still feeling very uncomfortable about the Immortals. They are your best troops, sacred _and_ immortal. Being as you have many H3 priests and are likely to take high dominion, it might be very feasible to push your dominion and fight major battles with these unkillable troops. Not only are they immortal, they're also extremely hard to kill. Possibly more importantly, they were probably the most unfair _feeling_ part of the mod, even if they weren't too overpowered. With mod nations you have to be careful because people always wonder whether the balance was done properly. As such they now cost 3 death gems, and are mildly easier to kill (-1 def, 25% more fire vulnerability, a bit lower MR). Because of their high protection and tower shield killing them will still be a victory for your opponent, and will still be a hollow one because of their immortality. I think they are still worth going for.
- The Tomb Kings were adept at soloing with their AOE fire. That was never the intention, I just wanted them to be able to defend themselves from assassins. As such they now just have secondary effect fire, rather than small area fire. With the recent magic improvements you can easily forge them a fire brand if you want to.
- I was really struggling with the cost of the Ushabti and Ushabti avatars. Finally I thought I'd go for the cheaper option because I like them. That seems to be a common rule in Dominions, nicely thematic things are also affordable. The resulting change is a frankly undramatic one - Ushabti go back to 12 earth gems (from 14), and avatars to 35 earth gems (from 40). What a waste of llamabrainpower!

Re: Nation - Tomb Kings - v1.03 released (March 2009)!
 

Yeah, the Tomb Princes are pretty awesome really. Try giving one two Black Steel Tower Shields!

Re: Nation - Tomb Kings - v1.03 released (March 2009)!
 

Sorry, Kite Shields, they can't hold Tower Shields because they're mounted.

Re: Nation - Tomb Kings - v1.03 released (March 2009)!
 

Hmm... now we've got the kind of funny situation where an unequipped prince (140 gold) is a more effective fighter than an unequipped tomb king. Unthematic for sure, but having made a game just to eploit the fact that with a good bless they're great at epanding AND can't die as long as you stay in your dominion... I can completely see the reason from a balance point of view. But it's just not fair, all the other 500 gold commanders can do it! /cry. Actually tomb princes may be a bit undercosted come to think of it, although I'm sure it's already hard enough to convince people to buy them. I think I'll play around with them some more before you hit them with the nerf stick :)

I'm not really sure that the world is in so much danger from a dominion push/immortals strategy. You'd still need buried pushing your borders so you could preach down enemy dominion, and your god will be dormant until year 3 to give you a good bless, limiting your dominion spread somewhat. But I will grant that it is probably possible to spread your dominion much more than your opponent would like. And if you own one or two capitols, that's a lot of ground that probably has your dominion in it to fight your immortals in. The immortals are still good, but you need to have a more cohesive strategy to use them now, so I suppose that is a point in the direction of balance.

Re: Nation - Tomb Kings - v1.03 released (March 2009)!
 

Well, the Tomb Prince is in a chariot. It's not that he's fundamentally stronger. If you get the Warrior King hero (a Tomb King in a chariot) I'm pretty sure he's much stronger than a Tomb Prince. Anyway like you say it sounds like it was good for balance if you were successful in using them for expansion. As for all the other 500 gold commanders being able to do it - yep, but I think the Tomb Kings are probably more powerful mages than any of them!

I doubt that I will nerf the Tomb Princes. People never buy non-mages anyway, so it's nice if a recruitable thug is worthwhile for once. I'm glad if you're liking them. Actually I don't foresee any more nerfing in general, subject to feedback from MP games; I've fixed the issues that were concerning me.

Great! That sounds exactly like what I was aiming for.

Thanks for all of your comments rdonj. Your feedback is absolutely invaluable. It also makes it much more fun to have people commenting on things!

Re: Nation - Tomb Kings - v1.03 released (March 2009)!
 

I must admit I quite like the idea of Tomb Kings being badass as thugs/SCs. They are pretty nuts in warhammer after all, even leaving spells aside.

Re: Nation - Tomb Kings - v1.03 released (March 2009)!
 

Well you can make them just as badass as they were for a few gems. A fire brand is better than their staff was, so they're only 10 (or 6) gems away. Actually I just did a little test, and even with just a demon whip (5 gems) and a W9 bless they're pretty effective. I suspect there are definitely some tactics to be had using them as top-end thugs.

Re: Nation - Tomb Kings - v1.03 released (March 2009)!
 

Perhaps tomb kings should get a change shape command that gives them a chariot :P

Re: Nation - Tomb Kings - v1.03 released (March 2009)!
 

. :)

Re: Nation - Tomb Kings - v1.03 released (March 2009)!
 

There's a minor bug I've just found. The Lord of the Summer Plague's Plague Bow isn't showing correctly. It's only a guess, but I think this might be related to CBM's Plague Bow being different to the vanilla one.

Re: Nation - Tomb Kings - v1.03 released (March 2009)!
 

I have also found an issue, cbm is using weapon 708 for a rusted sword, and you are using it for asp bows so if cbm is added after the tombkings the asp archers cannot shoot. Maybe there are also other things like that in the mod.

i assume on llamaserver cbm is added first?

Re: Nation - Tomb Kings - v1.03 released (March 2009)!
 

Wow! That is a bad one. I won't release an update straight away in case any more things come to light, but I'd better fix that soonish. I'll do a systematic check for clashes with CBM. Funny that I didn't do that before actually. I think CBM wasn't used so widely when I first made the mod.

There's no way that I know of to control the load order for mods. Hopefully it's right in Chronicles. Did your Asp Archers not have Asp Bows before? I thought that that change was before Chronicles started.

Re: Nation - Tomb Kings - v1.03 released (March 2009)!
 

I maintain that mods load in the order you 'tick' them in the preferences screen. I have seen no evidence to convince me otherwise.

Re: Nation - Tomb Kings - v1.03 released (March 2009)!
 

Well I tried that yesterday and it didn't seem to work. I wasn't super scientific about it though, I might have got confused.

Re: Nation - Tomb Kings - v1.03 released (March 2009)!
 

I just want to say, that awakened scopion hero is amazing. I got him late in year 1... self buffing The undying and Resilience, and he picked up heroic strength. Usually strength isn't that great on a trampler, but I just watched him easily solo an indy elephant provinces. Even without a bless, he can kill an elephant in one round of attacks, and with high prot, decent regeneration and a fear aura, he never dropped below 80 hp.

He also has the reanimate command and I don't quite seem to be able to preach with him. Not sure if you intended that or not.

Re: Nation - Tomb Kings - v1.03 released (March 2009)!
 

A few quick things re Tomb Kings:

I haven't seen it mentioned, but if you GoR a bone scorpion, it picks up D2H3. This means that you can give it a death gem and cast soul vortex. Having a regenerating, soul vortexed, high prot, trampling, fear-causing, blessable unit or two mixed in with your own legions is pretty cool.

Also, if there was ever a nation that screams for a bootstrap into blood, I think it's Tomb Kings. All the blood summons work well under the darkness that you're going to be putting up in every battle, you can start churning out blood stones to fuel Ushabti spam and if you decide to go the vampire road, your national undead buffs (being designed to work on highish MR) are nothing short of awesome in support.

I also have a mechanics question. Does ethereal prevent the secondary effect from kicking in? If it doesn't, watchers would be a phenomenal SC killer.

Re: Nation - Tomb Kings - v1.03 released (March 2009)!
 

Noooo! I lost my avatar of Horus. Ah man, I've had that thing for years. 434 kills, heroic toughness with +142 health... all to a time out while fighting gift of healthed pangaeans who just could not be killed fast enough, in a province that looked to be easy pickings :hurt:. It's going to take a while to get over that. On the bright side I'm finally getting close to having the earth income to summon Ushabti Avatars, and if they're anything near as good as the hero was that should make this game a lot easier....

This is the game where I was going to try to use ushabti and anubites. I'm having a lot of trouble doing so though, as it is just too tempting to use Tomb Kings as SCs and they need mostly earth gem items. And my earth income has varied between 6-9 gems a turn for most of the game, so I don't really have many to spare. And since I decided to not use a bless in this game the ushabti aren't quite as tough as they could be. Anyway, I still think the Ushabti are almost too expensive to summon. I just keep thinking, I get 2 ushabti for the price of summon fall bears. They're basically the same level spell, and I would be quite willing to bet 10 fall bears are more durable than 2 ushabti, and probably do more damage. With a good blessing it would be slightly better, but I still don't think they would be worth quite that many gems, especially with their lab repair requirement. Anubites I think are more or less fine, I would consider buying them even if I didn't need non-undead soldiers as they can be quite deadly. The competition for earth gems is always going to be pretty brutal for this nation though.

Oh, I also managed to lose the awakened scorpion hero to pangaea as well. He served me well, winning many battles and greatly speeding up my expansion, but in the end he ran into too many centaur cataphracts and they were able to finally bring him down. First bone scorpion I ever lost to the AI. Next time maybe I'll buff him with something more than just the undying....

Re: Nation - Tomb Kings - v1.03 released (March 2009)!
 

Any chance tomb kings will ever get recuperation on their first form? Having tomb kings riddled with afflictions can be a bit frustrating, as the best way to fix that is to get them killed so they become immortal... but shedding afflictions that way will ruin many of them as SCs and mages anyway. Makes those D4 kings really important.

Re: Nation - Tomb Kings - v1.03 released (March 2009)!
 

It counts as poison damage according to llama, so poison res would stop it. Not sure about ethereality.

Re: Nation - Tomb Kings - v1.03 released (March 2009)!
 

A couple questions-
1- What makes the Asp bow secondary effect different from simple poison?
2- Do all TKs have the same paths after dieing, or is it some other mechanic?

Re: Nation - Tomb Kings - v1.03 released (March 2009)!
 

1. The asp bow poison is MR-negates (the victim can disbelieve in the phantasmal asp). This wasn't originally the case, but due to the way poison arrows work (victims may still be poisoned through armour and shields I believe) they were excessively deadly with a D9 bless.

2. After dying they have all magic paths reduced by one. They also become physically weaker. However, further deaths do not affect them.

Re: Nation - Tomb Kings - v1.03 released (March 2009)!
 

Another, more open ended question. How necessary is the E9 W9 bless? I am almost definitely taking the W9, but am agonizing over the necessary scales sacrifices to get the E9. Is the extra prot key, or would E8 be almost as good?

Also, I am trying to use the princes to solo indies, and even with E9W9 they are still pretty hit and miss.

Re: Nation - Tomb Kings - v1.03 released (March 2009)!
 

The e9 is more useful for kings and princes. With the e9 it's much easier to use them early, and you can expand with e9/w9 tomb kings reasonably well. E9 does help the buried, but you really need to combine that with the resilience buff for their protection to be in any way meaningful. E9/W9 is a pretty expensive bless for the tomb kings though.

Re: Nation - Tomb Kings - v1.03 released (March 2009)!
 

E9 is much better than E8. The +4 protection is very handy on the Buried. With W9E9 + Resilience they are pretty hard to kill.

However, other blesses are also good. F9 obviously makes the Buried much more vicious. S9 makes them harder to kill (twist fate makes a big difference for fragile units like Buried, and obviously the MR is valuable too). D9 is very nasty on Asp Archers. I've had good results with all of those. I have to say that W9 has very good synergy with all of them though (more attacks for flaming weapons/asp archers, more defense makes twist fate better).

Certainly it would be worth considering say E9S9, W9S9 or F9W9 as well as other permutations.

Re: Nation - Tomb Kings - v1.03 released (March 2009)!
 

I am thinking about some other blesses, but the thing about the E9W9 bless is that it helps both the sacred troops and the priests/kings. W9S9 would be my second choice probably, but the extra MR doesn't help the TKs at all since they already have 18 MR, and the priests could care less, though the protection from a stray arrow is useful. The main problem with the W9 bless as I see it is that it is a real PITA with the way quickness interacts with archers. By rights they should just shoot twice, but instead they decide to shoot, then run forward a bit, all the way to the front line. :( Otherwise I would really look into a W9D? bless...

I hope I don't sound like I'm just shooting down everyone's ideas, I'm just trying to figure out the optimal playstyle for me.

Re: Nation - Tomb Kings - v1.03 released (March 2009)!
 

Got an ironic message in my current game:
http://img527.imageshack.us/img527/2...otombkings.png

Of course, the irony is that I am playing the Tomb Kings. Stupid Ermorians don't release that we're already dead....

On the other hand, perhaps the AI is smarter than I'm giving him credit for being. MA Ermor knows that we're all dead, and they want to add our noble Nehekharans to their foul legions!

...

Anyway, I'd also like to add my thanks to llama for this mod. I'd been thinking about it for a while, and I finally got around to trying it. Wow, what a cool mod! :) I might have even found a new favorite. The artwork is very consistent and adds to the "feel" of the mod. The units are excellent, and I've found uses for almost all of them. (A better player would use all of them, I'm sure.) I haven't gotten much magical research done, but I'm looking forward to trying out the national summons.

Note to other TK players: Marignon is just as nasty as you'd expect them to be. Sieging their home province with your undead armies is painful. Then the actual storming of the fortress is quite painful! I soon learned to hate those Holy Pyre spells. :mad: But Marignon is gone now, and I'm looking for my next target....

Re: Nation - Tomb Kings - v1.03 released (March 2009)!
 

Just a few comments.

I found the TKs a touch too expensive for 500 GPs. My main gripe is that with a nation like EA Neiflhem, you're recruiting a very powerful thug, quite possibly even an SC level creature, for the same cost who also has very good paths.

While the TKs have great paths, they tend to be lots of low level ones which makes them good for site searching, but difficult to employ in combat as caster mages (outside of death magic) without gear. So to me, the 400 or so price tag was much more reasonable. I often just had TKs sitting at home, researching, or playing forge ***** because they had good paths.

This is mainly due to the fact that the only other good combat mage you have is the undead sorcerer, with the high priest being almost useless unless you're looking to skelly spam.

I dunno, I still like the nation a lot, but I felt like the TKs shouldn't have been increased in price.

Jazzepi

Re: Nation - Tomb Kings - v1.03 released (March 2009)!
 

The fact that they're immortal is clearly a pretty big part of their price tag. But it's relatively hard to abuse I guess, since they get weaker after the first death. Even so, you can worry about them a lot less than say, a Slann or oreiad.

Re: Nation - Tomb Kings - v1.03 released (March 2009)!
 

Honestly, the immortality is basically worthless. If they were immortal, and kept their paths then I would completely agree with you that they're worth 500 gp.

I'd much, much rather see them lose the immortality and come down in price.

Jazzepi