Vanheim and blood

[Ragnarok-X]

im playing a game as pangea lately and im using a bit of bloodmagic as well, though just for summoning, not for battle. My tactic to get JUST enough bloodslaves is to to get approx 3-4 Pandemoniacs, they have nature 3, blood 2. Send every pan in a different provine with approx 2-4k population and let them hunt for 1 or 2 turns, just so you get 15 slaves. Put the tax to 70 % (it wont make a difference income-wise anyway, since the provine only gives 20 or so at 100%) Now let each forge one rod and continue to hunt. Now You should get approx 15+ slaves per turn.
Of course this wont be enough income if you rely on blood magic, but its enough for some fiends of darkness or dark vines.

hope i helped you.

[tinkthank]

Thanks a lot.
Finally understand: slaves/turn PER GOLD. Get it now. Such long-term thinking had escaped me (me want slaves now!). Obliged.

[Wendigo]

A lot of these cost per slave analysis start from the premise that the mage searcher has no other uses, which is not true in the case of the Vanir.

When I play Van I usually have at least half a dozen Vanjarls set as a quick response force (for either rituals or to Cloud trapeze wherever they might be needed). Until the need arrives the Vanir can use their time much more eficiently as blood searchers than, say researchers with their puny 5RP.

[Norfleet]

Wendigo makes a good point: If you're holding Vanjarls for military purposes, the cost effectiveness of using them for a secondary task like researching or bloodhunting is far less important: They're going to sit there anyway, why not put them to use?

The relative virtues of blood hunting as opposed to researching vary depending on one's situation, but bloodhunting is definitely a valid solution for an idling Vanjarl who's on a stakeout for military reasons, rather than economic ones.

However, for a dedicated bloodhunter, scouts are unmatched by anything other than a Mictlan priest, and neither scouts nor Mictlan priests are really strong choices for other uses that would necessitate keeping them around doing otherwise nothing.

While you may have a half dozen to a dozen Vanjarls sitting around waiting for a fire to extinguish, it'll surely take more than that to fuel a strong blood economy, however. They may do a fair job earning their keep as blood hunters in the meantime, but never forget that this is simply busywork, not their primary purpose.

[alexti]

Originally posted by Norfleet:
However, for a dedicated bloodhunter, scouts are unmatched by anything other than a Mictlan priest

Vaetti Hag (Blood-1) is also pretty good at 55 gold.

[Truper]

With Vanheim, I think you need to make the decision on whether to play them as a blood nation at the pretender design stage. I'm fond of using a water 4, blood 4 blue dragon for this purpose. The dragon can help with the initial expansion (research quickness!), then after an aflliction or 3, retire to a nice life of blood hunting and Ice Devil summoning. The blessings on the Vans and Valks are decent too...

[Norfleet]

Originally posted by alexti:
Vaetti Hag (Blood-1) is also pretty good at 55 gold.

The Vaetti Hag isn't sacred, IIRC, so therefore has the upkeep of a $55 unit. A base hag will hunt only twice as well as a scout, for more than twice the cost, so a Vaetti Hag would only pay off if you hunted with an SDR. Not quite as economical as the Mictlan Priest, but definitely an option for base Jotun.

Originally posted by Truper:
With Vanheim, I think you need to make the decision on whether to play them as a blood nation at the pretender design stage.

Even if you opt not to play as a hardcore blood nation, it won't hurt to have a few scout hunt for blood, to be put to use for tasks like blood sacrificing at times when you really need to push out Dominion faster, or forging an occasional blood item like a Black Heart to turn a Vanjarl into a mean assassin.

[ February 15, 2004, 18:17: Message edited by: Norfleet ]

[Bowlingballhead]

While we're on the subject of blood (and what a wonderful subject it is) I've really been trying to learn to like Mictlan, but their dependence on sacrifice leads me to one inevitable question:

Can priests sacrifice out of the laboratory pool, or do they have to have their victims in their personal inventory?

If the latter, can we BEG Illwinter to fix that in the next patch? I was under the impression priests had to carry their sacrifice supply, and keeping them 'topped up' and tracking their usage is a massive and annoying drain on time and attention. I'd sacrifice much more if I could just turn the command on and forget it. Indeed, my temples would run red with blood!

[Graeme Dice]

Originally posted by Bowlingballhead:
Can priests sacrifice out of the laboratory pool, or do they have to have their victims in their personal inventory?

Sacrificing priests automatically replenish their blood slaves from a laboratory if there is one present. They will take as many slaves as you gave them the previous turn.

[Bowlingballhead]

Oh! THAT might explain my funky, inconsistent results. So I have to 'prime the pump' with a few slaves, and after that they'll keep themselves supplied?

Hmmm. Means I won't be able to use 'pool blood slaves', but it's still a major timesaver. Enough to make sacrificing useful and convenient.