[OT] Another heated discussion about the Iraq siutation, war and politics.

[Unknown_Enemy]

the tone of discussion here is a bit ugly, and the possibilites for constructive dialogue seemingly nil

Last time I checked, rumors and insinuations were neither part of constructive dialogue or quality journalism.

[QBrigid]

So the war is about oil. Bush and Cheney are oil men. Now, I do believe in the business world high demand, low supply increases profits. Soooo, if the war is about oil, and Bush et al making money from it....Why in the world did our troops protect the oil fields?

If we wanted Iraq's oil for ourselves to stimulate the U.S. economy, why in the world would we want to STOP buying oil with food, knowing we produce way more food than we know what to do with? Before the war we were the major exporter of Iraqi goods. 47% of all Iraq's exports came to the U.S., more than any other country(CIA Fact book if you'd like to check my source).

So I still do not understand how this war was for Oil.

What I do understand is that Iraq threatened us, and refused to prove they had destroyed WMD.

What exactly am I missing here?

[Baron Munchausen]

You are thinking too simplistically. Sure, Bush and Cheney are looking out for their own interests. Just like the Saudis are looking out for their interests by trying to keep the price of oil in a certain range. If it goes too high, people can't afford to continue consuming and the economy crashes. End of profits. If it goes to low, the price doesn't cover production costs (drilling wells, building tankers and refineries, paying bribes to politicians, etc.). End of profits. There is a 'zone' that they want the price of oil to stay within.

So yes, the war could have been about oil. Because securing the supply from the second largest known reserves in the world is a good way to stabilize the price for the long-term future. The new Iraqi regime will have essentially the same interests as the Saudis. They want the price to be high enough to make a good profit, but not so high that it drives the Western economies down. That way they would get maximum return on their resource, and so would their corporate partners in the US (and other western countries).

Personally, I think the oil is just a perk. It's far more likely that the war was simply imperialism. The US can't have this dictator defying them for years and years and maintain credibility as ruler of the world. Gotta get rid of him. It was obviously not for any of the stated reasons. They kept changing to suit the moment. He was just grasping for whatever 'hot button' he could find to over-ride the objections. But it seems equally unlikely to have been about oil. The development of Russian and other central-asian oil reserves is well underway. We'll be swimming in oil within 10 years. We could have left Iraq to wither and die for the rest of the century with no problem to oil supplies.

[ June 07, 2003, 23:13: Message edited by: Baron Munchausen ]

[tesco samoa]

http://www.cnn.com/2003/LAW/06/06/fi...wmd/index.html

Interesting article

Is lying about the reason for a war an impeachable offense?

Hmmm...

I do hope that the reason this war happened was because of the threat.

For if it was about economics and securing those economics for the 21st centry that is frightening. As is those who support war for economic gains.

[mac5732]

In my opinion only, I think time is what is needed before final disposition on the whys and what nots of the war. There had to be something there as both Bush and Blair knew they would catch flak if nothing was found. Therefore, since they are still uncovering mass graves and other things, My opinion is that more time needs to be given before any condamnation for the reasons of the war in regards to other reasons then mass destruction weapons. Also don't forget, the Iraqi's had years to hide or redeploy them during years prior to the invasion. As for informants, My opinion again, is that until the proof of Sadam's true whereabouts, whether alive or dead is determined, many Iraqis are scared to give info for fear of repriasals or that he is alive and planning his comback..

These are opinions only

just some ideas Mac

[Fyron]

Is lying about the reason for a war an impeachable offense?

No. Lying is part of being a politician. Spreading propaganda is not an impeachable action. If it was, all of the US's wartime presidents would have been impeached.

[dogscoff]

So I still do not understand how this war was for Oil.

Bush said that the Iraqi oil reserves are being protected and preserved for the Iraqi people. And I believe him. Bush isn't planning to steal Iraqi oil. He wants the Iraqi people to exploit it, make moeny from it, and then spend that money on rebuilding Iraq.

And who will be doing that rebuilding? Who has already secured the billions of dollars worth of contracts for the reconstruction of Iraq's devastated infrastructure? Yup, you guessed it, Bush and his cronies. His colleagues, freinds and financial backers all have fingers in the pie.

Pick your own supporting article.

That said, I don't believe this was the primary reason for the war, it was just a tasty little bonus. I think what it really comes down to is global dominance, as outlined in the PNAC. Anything else is just a cover-story, imho.

[Aloofi]

Artista: Laura Brannigan
M�sica: Auto Controle

"Oh, a noite � meu mundo
A luz da cidade pintou, garota
Durante o dia nada importa
� a noite que elogia
Durante a noite, sem nenhum controle
Pela parede algo est� quebrando
Visto branco enquanto voc� caminha
Pela rua da minha alma
Voc� levou meu ego, voc� levou meu auto-controle
Voc� me pegou vivendo somente para a noite
Antes da manh� vir, a hist�ria conta
Voc� levou meu ego, voc� levou meu auto-controle
Outra noite, outro dia se passa
Eu nunca me paro para saber porque
Voc� me ajuda a esquecer de exercer minha fun��o
Voc� levou meu ego, voc� levou meu auto-controle
Eu, eu vivo entre as criaturas da noite
Eu n�o tenho a for�a para tentar e lutar
Contra um novo amanh�,
Ent�o suponho que eu s� acreditei nisto
Que o amanh� nunca vir�
Uma noite segura,
Eu estou vivendo na floresta de meu sonho
Eu sei que a noite n�o � como parecia e
Eu tenho que acreditar em algo,
Ent�o eu me farei acreditar nisto
Que esta noite nunca acabar�
Oh-oh-oh, oh-oh-oh, oh-oh-oh, oh-oh-oh
Oh-oh-oh, oh-oh-oh, oh-oh-oh, oh-oh-oh
Oh, a noite � meu mundo
A luz da cidade pintou, garota
Durante o dia nada importa
� a noite que elogia
Eu, eu vivo entre as criaturas da noite
Eu n�o tenho a for�a para tentar e lutar
Contra um novo amanh�,
Ent�o suponho que eu s� acreditei nisto
Que o amanh� nunca vir�

Uma noite segura
Eu estou vivendo na floresta de meu sonho
Eu sei que a noite n�o � como pareceria
Eu tenho que acreditar em algo,
Ent�o eu me farei acreditar nisto
Que esta noite nunca acabar�
Oh-oh-oh, oh-oh-oh, oh-oh-oh, oh-oh-oh, oh-oh-oh
Voc� levou meu ego, voc� levou meu auto-controle"

I'm learning Portugese now with the songs I used to like when i was in kindergarden.
.
.
.

[ June 09, 2003, 14:18: Message edited by: Aloofi ]

[Aloofi]

Hey, I just found a picture of my first love!!!
I remember fighting with another kid because of her......

[Aloofi]

Amazing the things that can be found Online.
But I remember her with a longer hair....