Night of the Long Knives?

[Squirrelloid]

Originally Posted by rdonj

Sombre is hardly the only person with discipline problems on this board... not including maerlande, who has finally gotten his. Sure took him an awful lot of effort to get it, in comparison.

And lets not mention Wikdthots - was any discipline ever handed down about that at all?

Edit: that is, given he was a sockpuppet, did the person responsible suffer *any* consequences?

[Baalz]

To those who are angry, I'd like to ask that the discussion be elevated above what I'd expect out of other forums. Regardless of your grievance this isn't accomplishing anything other than making people look like petulant children. If you really feel fed up enough to leave then just do it.

To the admins I'd like to expound on the real reason people are angry, and I alluded to it in my previous post. Most of us identify with Sombre, even if we found him abrasive. He was part of the community and (at least those that are protesting think) he contributed much more than his abrasiveness subtracted. Your actions feel unilateral, arbitrary and an attack on our community. If he had been consistently unpalatable then not only would everyone understand why he was banned, they'd thank you for it. This feels like some outsider decided that enough respect was not paid to him and attacked our community, only to be fully supported by the powers that be. Let me be clear that I don't know or particularly care about the specifics of what happend, I'm just telling you why people are mad as they're not doing a good job articulating it.

It's not that there is a feeling that there should be no rules, it's that the feeling is that how this is enforced is an attack on our community. If you banned Sombre then who else? Obviously Sombre is not coming back, and I'd expect that several other people are gone for good over this...and the feeling is why in the hell are you swinging a big club around like that when nobody else saw a problem? This whole thing could have been greatly mitigated by publicly asking, then warning, then being clear about consequences for further behavior and bringing the community along with the decision. *Obviously* important members of the community deserve special consideration - they are what makes the community. If there is a compelling reason that one of the pillars of a community needs to be removed you can't just unilaterally do it with no transparency...unless you want considerable backlash.

[Trumanator]

Originally Posted by Baalz

To those who are angry, I'd like to ask that the discussion be elevated above what I'd expect out of other forums. Regardless of your grievance this isn't accomplishing anything other than making people look like petulant children. If you really feel fed up enough to leave then just do it.

To the admins I'd like to expound on the real reason people are angry, and I alluded to it in my previous post. Most of us identify with Sombre, even if we found him abrasive. He was part of the community and (at least those that are protesting think) he contributed much more than his abrasiveness subtracted. Your actions feel unilateral, arbitrary and an attack on our community. If he had been consistently unpalatable then not only would everyone understand why he was banned, they'd thank you for it. This feels like some outsider decided that enough respect was not paid to him and attacked our community, only to be fully supported by the powers that be. Let me be clear that I don't know or particularly care about the specifics of what happend, I'm just telling you why people are mad as they're not doing a good job articulating it.

It's not that there is a feeling that there should be no rules, it's that the feeling is that how this is enforced is an attack on our community. If you banned Sombre then who else? Obviously Sombre is not coming back, and I'd expect that several other people are gone for good over this...and the feeling is why in the hell are you swinging a big club around like that when nobody else saw a problem? This whole thing could have been greatly mitigated by publicly asking, then warning, then being clear about consequences for further behavior and bringing the community along with the decision. *Obviously* important members of the community deserve special consideration - they are what makes the community. If there is a compelling reason that one of the pillars of a community needs to be removed you can't just unilaterally do it with no transparency...unless you want considerable backlash.

To add to this, you might try having junior mods who the community actually respects, instead of mods who contribute nearly nothing to the community and therefore enjoy no respect from it.

[Annette]

This is exactly the problem, Baalz. Sombre was granted extra leeway because of his history here. His ban didn't come out of the blue, and I'm sure he would agree. I'm certain he knew it was coming. Because we were lenient with him, there is not a record for you all to see. It's a Catch 22...I'm hearing we should be willing to bend the rules because of his contributions, but I've created an uproar because I allowed the rules to be bent.

I'm not sure what lesson we'll take from this. Will we bend the rules again for someone who has contributed greatly over a long period of time? Probably. Will that person then ignore our requests to play nice with others? Hopefully not.

[Squirrelloid]

Originally Posted by Annette

This is exactly the problem, Baalz. Sombre was granted extra leeway because of his history here. His ban didn't come out of the blue, and I'm sure he would agree. I'm certain he knew it was coming. Because we were lenient with him, there is not a record for you all to see. It's a Catch 22...I'm hearing we should be willing to bend the rules because of his contributions, but I've created an uproar because I allowed the rules to be bent.

This is entirely believable, and I have no reason to doubt it. I think the big issue here would be: Was sombre aware that he was near a permanent ban because of a history of infractions, even if he wasn't penalized for them? I mean, the stated forum 'justice' system serves two purposes - to punish misdeeds and to warn abusers that they are getting closer to more serious consequences. Permanent ban without appropriate forewarning would be a little harsh.

I am only aware of the recent PM exchange Sombre was involved with, so I don't know anything about a history of mod-Sombre interactions.

I'm not sure what lesson we'll take from this. Will we bend the rules again for someone who has contributed greatly over a long period of time? Probably. Will that person then ignore our requests to play nice with others? Hopefully not.

If some members of the community are being treated specially, they should still be duly warned even if they don't actually receive the penalties. Knowing how close more severe penalties are is a disincentive to committing additional violations. (And if they don't care, then they shouldn't care when the banhammer does come down).

Possibly also keep a 'shadow-record' so you have something to show for it.

Edit: Finally, I don't think showing disrespect for the rules in private PMs should be construed as a violation of the ToS or reasons for disciplinary action since (1) it isn't a violation of the posted ToS and (2) saying something and doing something are two very different beasts.

[Foodstamp]

This thread has been very entertaining. Let's wrap it up with a ban to Frozen Lama for personal attacks on a moderator so he can join his buddies on the free forums.

[Frozen Lama]

Originally Posted by Foodstamp

This thread has been very entertaining. Let's wrap it up with a ban to Frozen Lama for personal attacks on a moderator so he can join his buddies on the free forums.

I smell a future moderator in the maiking.....

and what? no infraction? no temp bans? oh.. right. the rules mean nothing lately.

[Foodstamp]

Originally Posted by Frozen Lama

I smell a future moderator in the maiking.....

and what? no infraction? no temp bans? oh.. right. the rules mean nothing lately.

This thread is a perfect example of why no one would ever want to moderate a forum lol.

[Trumanator]

I'm glad you've had fun with this thread foodstamp. You've gotten all kinds of thanks from Brooks for being his tool.

[Foodstamp]

Originally Posted by Trumanator

I'm glad you've had fun with this thread foodstamp. You've gotten all kinds of thanks from Brooks for being his tool.

Thanks for being mine .