Give me good reasons why R'lyeh is a balanced nation.

Deleted

[ February 03, 2004, 06:06: Message edited by: Zen ]

[Argitoth]

#1. I did not get owned by R'lyeh anytime lately as I haven't VSed anyone playing R'lyeh.

#2. My strategy has a LOT of depth. Fodder and archers are not a weakness, not even fires from afar.

[ February 03, 2004, 05:46: Message edited by: Argitoth ]

[Arryn]

Originally posted by Raz 24:
Sure they have mind bLast and stuff but theyre infantry is a tad bit lacking

Which is why I use lots and lots of summons (mage and void) as "cannon fodder". Trolls work well on the front lines, and undead make nifty garrison troops.

Originally posted by Argitoth:
Those mindbLasters have thick armor, 16 protection. They also have unroutable fodder troops. Their mages are really powerful. What are "Target Archers?"

Arrows cut through 16 protection just fine. So do xbow bolts, so do flaming arrows.

And no, I wasn't owned by R'lyeh and decided to make this thread. I started it because the first time I was owned by R'lyeh (way before you guys were even born) I've been meaning to start this thread.

Well then, obviously if you were owned by R'lyeh then you may need to look at some of the things implemented below if you feel they are 'so unbalanced' you needed a thread.

If it wasn't for the fact that paralyze cuts through MR so easily, they'd get torn up by Atlantis or anyone with any sort of cheap recruitable troop. All of yours are going to be better than any of R'lyeh's even if a bunch of them are paralyzed.

Mindless units tear up the fodder so that they don't kill your own fodder or other units. Know how many mind bLast attacks each Illithid gets? 10. If they don't have someone to kill the enemy units or paralyze all of yours, they are going to get eaten up.

R'lyeh is fun and interesting and has potential to give you a very bad time if you don't know their weaknesses, but are nowhere near close to overpowered or cheap.

Originally posted by Argitoth:

Do you really want me to tell you how I don't have these weaknesses or somethin? Because this topic is about how R'lyeh is not cheap.

No, because I've beaten you plenty of times and I've played the game plenty of times to know that there is no strategy without weaknesses.

And yes, fires from afar will work, and so will murdering winter. So will mass harpies, spring hawks, rigor mortis, and any number of things.

If I could stomach constant IMing and complaining how someone was taking a turn over 5 minutes in the game we're playing I might play you again, but I'm just flawed in the fact I can't. Which I admit is just a paitence thing I don't have anymore.

[ February 03, 2004, 06:10: Message edited by: Zen ]

[Argitoth]

Even when I massed archers that one time playing R'lyeh, all he did was mindbLast them. It was probably 75 archers against 30 mind bLasters with 16 protection.

Archers just got paralyzed.

You can't just build 1 unit type and try to win.

That's why we've been saying "Fodder". You have to have more units with minds than your opponent to be able to outLast the illithids. All it takes is 1 volley of missile fire to cut down massive ranks of illithids.

If you have the customary orders of a front line on "Hold and Attack" you will also just be sitting there waiting to be chewed up by the mindbLasts. Or if you have just 1 commander sitting at the back and he happens to get targeted by a "Fire Rearmost" order and gets bLasted to death and all your troops rout.

Another good thing to know about R'lyeh is if you can make them rout, they lose all their mindless units (Shambler Thralls and Lobos). So fear works great on them.

[ February 03, 2004, 06:04: Message edited by: Zen ]

[Arryn]

Originally posted by Argitoth:
Even when I massed archers that one time playing R'lyeh, all he did was mindbLast them. It was probably 75 archers against 30 mind bLasters with 16 protection.

Archers just got paralyzed.

Obviously you failed to issue orders to the archers such as "target large enemy monsters" (the illithids are size 4) or "target rearmost" (most people and AIs play the illithids at the far back). And if you did do this, then something else about your battlefield positioning, or the type of troops you had on the field, or the magical support (or lack thereof) was faulty.

I have no trouble countering R'lyeh. It also helps that I have played R'lyeh myself several times (it's a favorite of mine) so I am quite well acquainted with the shortcomings of my "own" units. Perhaps if you were more familiar with the units you are using, and those you face, you wouldn't have such a hard time.

Whining about it, and arguing with those that post trying to help you only shows immaturity and ingratitude. There are a lot of other choice adjectives I could use but I'll refrain.

[Argitoth]

Originally posted by Zen:
And yes, fires from afar will work, and so will murdering winter. So will mass harpies, spring hawks, rigor mortis, and any number of things.

I'll tell you now, those aren't my weaknesses. Actually, this thread is kind of over. I see some of R'lyeh potential weaknesses. I'll have to do some player vs player.

Next is a thread for my disintegration strategy since Zen loves it so much. (just kidding )

[Saber Cherry]

Then there's the obvious answers. Ryleh has expensive leaders and large, expensive units, and cannot use indy leaders. The large, expensive units are ranged.

Ctis uses nature, astral, death, has one of the best assassins in the game, and has poison-resistant units. So...

1) Give assassins antimagic items, and assassinate Ryleh's leaders with skeletal swarms.

2) Use poison-cloud-ish spells, or foul vapors.

3) Cast swarm, and interrupt the mindbLasters with dragonflies, forcing them into melee. You can even curse them first, so even dragonfly bites will cause problems...

4) Cast antimagic. 1 gem (probably 2 for you), largely negates Ryleh. Or did you play an astral nation without plannning for the ability to reach Astral 2?

These are some pretty simple solutions. The best is probably crossbows, but you seem to have discounted that already.