How do you deal with Illithids?

[Joonie73]

Holy moly...

I was playing as Ulm and built up a nice group of about 30 Black Templars. I then fought about a dozen illithids and 20-30 support troops and got completely wiped. Some kind of mind attack? What exactly was that and how do I deal with it as Ulm?

[LordArioch]

First off, I would not suggest building an army entirely out of black knights. They just aren't worth the resources as front line troops. But getting more numerous troops with higher mr should help against the ilithids.

[PvK]

In my limited experience, Black Templars (or other Knights) are great as a flanking force that arrives just after the main body of HI and/or cannon fodder have met their melee. The have devastating attack but aren't invulnerable by any means, so its best if they aren't charging straight into combat by themselves. Best if the enemy is mainly committed to fighting something tougher and/or less expensive when your cavalry hits their flank or rear.

I haven't had to deal with Ithilids yet, but if they are doing mental attacks, then expensive armor should stay away from them. I have a similar issue fighting Jotunheim with Ulm, because Jotun giants can squash Ulm guys with giant weapons and boulders. In both cases, I'd only engage with plenty of cannon fodder, such as whatever cheap units you can get (militia, barbarian knife fodder, mercenaries, provincial defense) and mobs of archers and/or magical tricks (though sending expensive mages could be a bad investment unless they have a good plan and good protection).

Anyway, that'd be my semi-novice advice.

PvK

[LordArioch]

I would agree, black templar are very nice cavalry units, but are still cavalry and best used as such. A test of 20 black knights vs 40 guardians leaves equal casualties and routing knights. The templar can get a nice bless but I'd still keep them on the flanks as PvK advised. And against jotunheim I've found pikeneers the way to go. Nothing else is going to repel jotun spearsmen and extra armor or damage doesn't matter as much as changing who repels whom. Still not a good nation to fight with ulm though.
I've been growing much more fond of weapon reach. If I understand how it works you ignore about 25% of attacks from roughly equivalent units while forcing morale checks and you hit them back and possibly cause 1 damage another 25% of the time resulting in another morale check. It sure makes hoplites vs. milita a really unfair fight.

Depending on what you are doing and your own overwriting dominion there are a few ways to deal with illithids.

Hopefully you have a high magic pretender so you can get a good magic base and recruit some non-Iron Faith casters (Jade Priestesses, etc)

Use your Templar as mop up. Have them hold until your Main Cannon Fodder (LI) engage then have the Templars come around the sides and cut through them. If you have a high drain scale they should be able to resist some of the effects; but unless your pretender is prepared, you have to just throw alot of inexpensive troops in their way to eat while you cut them down with your Templars.

As Lord Airoch stated, I use pikeaneers against giants or salamanders in the droves and try to round around the back to cause morale failure. Also Pikeaneers and Crossbowmen work with Nief Jotuns. If you let them get close enough (with enough hold orders) the Crossbowmen miraculously don't shoot their own men as much and can tear apart those giants in a few rounds.

Edit: If you have any summons or items that summon (Imps, Mist Wolves, etc) and enough use of the hold commands, you can save yourself alot of headaches dealing with races that like to chew up poor ulmites

[ November 12, 2003, 07:18: Message edited by: Zen ]

[PDF]

Maybe a bunch of crappy Tribal Archers and Warriors would be the more cheap effective way of dealing with them ?
I'm not that fond either of pure Templars/Knights armies :they are often just overpowered by a swarm of cheaper troops, easily peltered with spells, etc... They should be use IMO as a elite offensive force, and be supported by infantry. Pikeneers, flail-armed infantry, crossbowmen, and some Hvy Inf mercs are good for that.

[PvK]

Yep.

Tribals are the some of the best, fastest-recruited cannon fodder I've seen.

PvK