OT: Star Trek Nemesis

[Puke]

Originally posted by Hadrian Tyrael S. Aventine:

Perhaps the Romulan war never happened, but was made up to cover up the Temporal Cold War.

oh please tell me you just made up that bit about the TCW? please?

I gave up watching enterprise after the first episode (shortly before that, actually) when i became fed up with the lack of continuity not only between trek serise, but from one episode to the next. lack of thought put into story arcs, temporal un-doings of events, and no direction to anything. things only make sense when over zealous fans make up excuses for why the trek universe is not COMPLETELY ridiculous, and then those theories are promptly over-ridden when some new episode comes out.

Tell me there isnt really a temporal cold war in the trek universe! thats the final straw of absurdity that would completely un-do anything any of the old episodes or old serise have ever accomplished. it just does not get any worse than that.

[Magnum357]

Well, can definitly agree with many of your points Puke and Major Tom about a lot of your points. I still wouldn't mind to see though a Romulan War because even though. As much as many Star Trek "purists" would like to shy away from wars, it did Last a few years and was a bloody war (not something that Lasted a couple of weeks and then ended). Doesn't mean ST:Enterprise will even do it, they may actually do what you said Major Tom. Also, although their is much literature that says that the Romulans were only Pre-warp until TOS eara, I really find that hard to beleive. I can't see the Romulans being a Threat to anybody if they didn't have some sort of Warp Capability. Even at Warp 1, it would take Decades to reach some of the Star Systems in the show. In the episodes that introduced the Romulans, I would have sworn that Spock only said the ship they were battling was "Sublight". I never heard anything in that episode (or other episodes) that all Romulan ships were sublight. Maybe only that ship was sublight was because the ships Plasma Torpedo and Clocking Device took up a lot of space on the Ship and the ships generator didn't have enough power to make warp Velocities (low power Warp engines perhaps).

As for this Temporal War stuff, I do agree with you Puke, its beginning to really worry me too. I don't mind Star Trek using Time in episodes, but it can really makes things hairy for explanations. The only episodes I have ever seen in Star Trek that I liked that ever dealt with time was the TNG Episode "Yesterdays enterprise" and a few Episodes of TOS, DS9, and TNG that dealt with time as more of a Random phenomina. Like for example when the Enterprise-D was stuck in a Time Bubble with a Romulan ship and Picard, Gordie, Troi, and Data had to figure it out. Or when the Bozeman was stuck in a Time loop for 80 years. Those kind of episodes intrigue me. When I see crews going back and forth through time and able to change the future in one episode then in another episode can't change the effects of time makes me quite angry at these writers. And this Temperoal War Stuff is sort of a facinating idea for a story, but I can see how this could REALLY mess things up with the whole Star Trek universe. Even Star Trek: First Contact (a great action Star Trek movie) didn't even approch the time thing right. Ok, maybe the Borg do have the ability to travel through time, but that sort of opens a pandoras box! Why not just keep sending another Borg ship to Fed Space (or a whole fleet) to the past? And why was it so easy for the Ent-E to get back to the future? I think Star Trek should just dabble with time only sparadically and make it make sense where it doesn't screw up other episodes in other series.

I think I will still keep watching Enterprsie, but I very Wary lately.

P.S. I do agree with Major Tom about the Ferengi. Even if this did occur that a few Ferengi where around the Core systems in the 22nd century, they are a LOOOOOONNNNGGG way from home. I mean, their homeworld is what... probably 2500 to 3000 light years away??? I guess they got some fine warp engines on this older ships huh?

[Magnum357]

Oh, and another thing I'm not all thrilled with the Star Trek show is... well... a lot of things.

Like for example, the design of the ship. It looks like an upside down Akira! Why not just design the ship with some TOS aspects to it. Granted, in the 1960's they didn't have anywhere near the Movie special effect capabilities we have today, but a TOS designed ship with some touchups here and their and superfical redesigning could actually make a fine vessel even for todays shoot'em up kids of the 21st Century.

Also, whats up with these Starfleet Admirals??? They seem like a bunch of whimps compared to the other series. I bet Archer could give orders to them!

And I do agree (yet again) about these races they are meeting. Some are so advanced that you wonder where the heck they are by the 23rd Century! And why do we have the Enterprise heading to Risa in the 22nd Century? Isn't it a bit farther away from earth then that? I was sort of hoping to see Enterprise just dealing with some races and visiting worlds in the nearby area (like Vulcan) and show some of the first Intersteller Colonies of humans in the nearby area (like didn't humans settle on Alpha Centauri). Maybe have first contact with Klingons but I seriously doubt Humans would be able to visit the Homeworld until years later. I don't know how much are NX-01 has covered, but I with a Warp Capability of warp 4 (max average), I find it hard to beleive that Enterprise has traveled farther then a 50 light year radius.

[disabled]

Sadly, the NX-01 design was lifted from the Akira class, Excelsior, and a few others. The designers of the NX-01 say they based in on the p-38 fighter. Yeah, sure.
There was a design similar, and a likely precursor to the 1701 of kirk, but Berman rejected saying Kirk's enterprise looked like a toy.

I've seen some nice fan made ones and even tried at making my own for a while.
http://www.spaceempires.org/gallery/fan/nx01a.gif
http://www.spaceempires.org/gallery/fan/nx01b.gif

Overall, I'm disappointed with Enterprise for the lack of original story telling. We've had what, 5 shuttle crash episodes in the first season, please, even voyager had less than that in the firt season.

The Temporal Cold War was actually another TV series that was going to be made by Braga, but paramount didn't pick up on it so they wrote it into Star Trek. They decided to toss it into Enterprise to silence the people that bash them for not being consistant.

Enterprise is the final deathblow for star trek. I am looking forward to seeing Star Trek Nemesis, but that will most likely be the end of my Trek days. Gene Roddenberry would change his name to Iben Scrood if he saw that [Enterprise] travesty....

In terms of mature, develoepd sci-fi, this is my ranking on a 1-10 scale. 10 is the most grown up.

Farscape : 10
Stargate SG1 : 10
Jerimiah : 8
Odyssey 5 : 9
Andromeda : 1
Enterprise : 2
Earth: Final conflict: 1
Voyager : 1
DS9 : 9
TNG : 9
TOS : 5

[Timstone]

Don't forget Babylon 5!!
It most defently scores a 10.

Oh, and Space: Above and Beyond. Not too perfect, but not bad. I say it scores a 7.

[ September 04, 2002, 15:57: Message edited by: Timstone ]

[geoschmo]

I like Enterprise as a whole. I am a big fan of Scott Bakula, and the acting and writing for Enterprise are way better I think then the first couple TNG seasons. So far it's not been as good as TNG at it's best, or DS9 at it's worst, but if it develops the way the others did I think it will be fine.

However, the Temporal cold war thing is simply aweful. And there are a LOT of dicontinuities from the other series as others have pointed out. I had to give up on those after a couple episodes and simply take it as a separate show. Call it an alternate reality, or whatever. It does make it more enjoyable and tolerable. And you start to see the good points then when you aren't so hung up on those major gaffs.

Geoschmo

[Captain Kwok]

I enjoy Enterprise for the most part, although they've had a few clunkers. I think it's getting off to a better start than some of the other series. I look forward to the second season.

The movie Nemesis looks like it's going to be good with lots of space battles and action. Yay!

[gregebowman]

Well, I for one don't like the shortened length of each episode. If I remember right, each hour of TV is now roughly only 42 minutes, as compared to the original Trek time of 51 minutes. That's a lot of difference in time, and sometimes they have to have something done off-camera to get the episode done in the allotted time. Every once in awhile I think that I'm watching a 2 parter, when actually whatever they're talking about just wasn't filmed. That to me is really annoying. IF they're going to do that, stop trying to tell 2 stories per episode and just tell one story like they did in the original show.

[ September 04, 2002, 18:41: Message edited by: gregebowman ]

[Magnum357]

Hey, I keep forgetting to ask this question about Star Trek, but who is this Berman guy anyway? I've heard a lot of negative things about him. Diddn't he write most of the Episodes of DS9? I liked DS9 personally, but if this is the same guy, why was Voyager and Enterprise such lousy Star Trek shows? I don't know much about the writers of ST so some info about this guy would be appreciated.

You have got to be kidding me! They added the Temperal War stuff from another shows idea??? Talk about trying to use the system!!! They have basically ruined the whole ST universe just so some writers could get their idea across. Pathetic! Actually, I find it hard to beleive how humanity could acheive Time travel within a few centuries when we see a lot of other races in Star Trek (old ones like 500,000 years old) that were still not cabable of traveling through time. What makes us so special anyway?

I agree, ever since Gene Rodenbery died, without his approval/disapproval, Star Trek has been on very Wary ground. Doesn't his wife have any say on these episodes? On the other hand, even if she did, maybe she has been approving this episodes and series.

here are my list of favorite shows

Babylon 5: 10
DS9: 9
TNG: 8
VOY: 1
TOS: 5
SG1: 8
Farscape: 6

[gregebowman]

Berman was Roddenberry's assistant or producer or something like that. When Roddenberry died, Berman was picked to head the Star Trek franchise. He was the one who developed, along with others, all of the spin-off shows, DS9, Voyager and Enterprise. I don't think Majel Barrett has much influence over the shows, other than providing the computer voices. I stopped reading all of the production info on the shows, so I really don't know more than that. There's probably some die hard Trekkie who could tell you much more than that.