patch 2.08 is out

[atul]

Originally posted by Arryn:
The magical properties of the shield would still be operative regardless of whether the wearer cannot actually use the shield as a shield, so long as the shield is in contact with the wearer.

Does this apply also to shields with description saying explicitly that those effects appear when someone strikes the shield, for example charcoal shield? A bit many variables you guys are having here if you all insist on putting all imaginable real-life (physics, physique, etc) and fantasy (magic) mechanics into play. Probably hard to agree on anything...

Oh, my mental image of paralyzation spell varies somewhere between old D&D 'hold' spell and epileptic seizure. So it would be possible to get all kinds of nice effects (like spell victims randomly hurting themselves ). Um, it's a game, so if something bugs, saying that really it is like this might not be the best option to sway anyone...

Have to second Endoperez, on both points. Namely putting conversation perhaps to another thread and that it'd be interesting to see how it ends.

[NTJedi]

Originally posted by SurvivalistMerc:
NT Jedi,

Weapons and shields don't have to "fall off" to cease providing some of their benefits. Surely a shield is not benefitting you as a shield if you are lying on top of it. And if it's not benefitting you as a shield, perhaps its magical powers are also not operating.

The way this game works... if the magic shield is equipped the unit gets the benefits from the shield. AS this game works paralyzed units DO NOT lose the powers of equipped items. That's the way this game works.

Rather than requiring an entire battle round to re-equip items, why not just assume that this time is included and factored into the "duration" of the paralysis?

Because a unit unequipped is not completely helpless or paralyzed... OBVIOUSLY a Titan is still very deadly even if he is unequipped.

I have both seen and used shields. And there is not a single one that I think would be of much use to someone who has fallen down and can't move a muscle.

The game has already included where paralyzed units are more vunerable so that's in the game. However these are magical shields... and paralyzed units do not lose their magical enchantments in this game when paralyzed... thus the items are still equipped.

There is nothing in the paralyzation spell description to indicate that you "stiffen up" when paralyzed. In fact, such a "stiffened up" condition would not typically be called paralysis...at least not in English.

Again as I said early there are many different types of paralyzation and there is nothing in the description of paralyzation which indicates units fall down either.

Why would you fall down? Because muscular activity...in the voluntary muscles...is required to keep standing.

AGAIN... NOT all units can fall down... fire elementals... sphinx... etc... THUS don't go believing it always happens. And as I said before there are DIFFERENT types of paralyzation. Again there have been many other games where paralyzation does NOT cause units to fall down.

Surely, given the nature of graphics in Dom 2, you will not conclude that the absence of graphics in which one is lying down is not dispositive on the issue. Surely you will concede that most non-magical units do sleep periodically, even though there are no lying down figurines on the overland map. [/QB]

Doesn't have to be graphics added into the battlefield.

[ February 18, 2004, 17:37: Message edited by: NTJedi ]

[NTJedi]

SurvivalistMerc... you seem to be gravely mistaken in believing that paralyzation will automatically cause units to fall and become unconcious... that's incorrect.

Paralyzation has different types... take a look at description#2 from dictionary.com which lists one example: Paralyzed by Fear

Perhaps those spirits are causing this type of Paralyzation.

[ February 18, 2004, 17:52: Message edited by: NTJedi ]

[PhilD]

Originally posted by PDF:
Are you sure ? I mean that the problem seems to lie with the Utgard Seithkona UNIT, that should have an ID and be moddable independently of whether it's used in a theme or not .
Or does the bug lies elsewhere - ie the unit is fine but stg screw it when it's used by Utgard Jotunheim ?

The Utgard theme in 2.08 apparently has a Smouldercone (Abysia site) instead of whatever it should have. Since you cannot mod themes, or sites, whatever you do, Utgard will get a Smouldercone. You can mod the Seithkona, I suppose, but unless you mod the Lava Warrior and Warlock, Utgard will have Abysian units; and if you do, Abysia will lose them. Or anyway, that's how I understand things (I haven't tried to do any modding).

BTW, for the authors of the (IMHO) useless AD&D/rationalization sub-thread: you're getting nowhere, and basically polluting an otherwise useful thread about the patch... if you could take this to another thread, or to PM, that would be nice...

[Graeme Dice]

Originally posted by SurvivalistMerc:
Any unit capable of fighting back in any way currently, or which currently has defenders of any kind isn't "helpless." If the sphinx has astral magic and the knowledge to cast soul slay or paralyze itself...that doesn't even as a practical matter look helpless to me. Any unit that can't fight back either magically or physically is helpless if it has no one else to fight for it. Or does that not make sense?

Why is the sphinx vulnerable to instant destruction when its mind is shut down, but not whne its mind is active? The physical structure doesn't suddenly fall apart, so there's no reason for it for it to be more susceptible to being hit or killed.

If there is an astral mage capable of casting paralyze, they probably do have a month. How many additional castings of paralysis can occur during the 30-40 turns that it will take the sphinx to become unparalyzed?

Once he becomes unconscious he has one casting every 4 turns. With a les than 5% success rate on paralyze with a decent MR on the Sphinx, it's not that likely that he will stay paralyzed for the whole month.

And how soon will the sphinx acquire such an affliction, like feebleminded, as to effectively be unable to fight back in any way? In almost all of these paralyzed victim situations, the astral mage remains on the battlefield.

Why should it matter if the sphinx can effectively cast spells? It still is difficult to physically destroy even without a mind.

Originally posted by PDF:
Are you sure ? I mean that the problem seems to lie with the Utgard Seithkona UNIT, that should have an ID and be moddable independently of whether it's used in a theme or not .
Or does the bug lies elsewhere - ie the unit is fine but stg screw it when it's used by Utgard Jotunheim ?

I have tested the Mod and the Seithkona work, but in my 2.08. Utgard has a starting site Smouldercone instead of the Well of Urd. Now while Ironic, it also makes the Theme lose their Norna and Seithkona are regulated to a Unit not a Commander. The Theme also gets Vaetti (for whatever reason) and Demonbred, Warlock and Apprentices, Lava Warriors.

So unless there is a way to modify the beginning site given to a theme (not nation) with the current tools, then I can't fix it as of right now. Which if someone says you can, I'd love to fix it, as at current there are a few games that are in limbo because of it.

[PhilD]

Originally posted by Zen:

So unless there is a way to modify the beginning site given to a theme (not nation) with the current tools, then I can't fix it as of right now. Which if someone says you can, I'd love to fix it, as at current there are a few games that are in limbo because of it.

You cannot mod a game in progress, right? So I don't think there's much you can do anyway for games that have already started - all you can do is not move them to 2.08. I'd suggest backing the game up before you host it into 2.08, too.

It wasn't hosted in 2.08, it wasn't hosted at all actually. It was hosted in 2.06 before the patch was even applied to my system. So the only issue would be if somehow something snuck in there that is 2.08 and is messing with everything.

[PhilD]

Originally posted by Zen:
It wasn't hosted in 2.08, it wasn't hosted at all actually. It was hosted in 2.06 before the patch was even applied to my system. So the only issue would be if somehow something snuck in there that is 2.08 and is messing with everything.

Then I'd say you should make sure you back up everything before you host, then try to host with a 2.06 executable. If it crashes, that means someone submitted a turn with 2.08... and you can either ask them to resubmit with 2.06, and decide that the game will go on as 2.06, or make the change to 2.08. Unless you have an Utgard player, though, it should not matter much...

Originally posted by PhilD:
]Then I'd say you should make sure you back up everything before you host, then try to host with a 2.06 executable. If it crashes, that means someone submitted a turn with 2.08... and you can either ask them to resubmit with 2.06, and decide that the game will go on as 2.06, or make the change to 2.08. Unless you have an Utgard player, though, it should not matter much...

It won't even let you load it in 2.06 is the problem so that's what I'm trying to get it back to. Yes and we do have an Utgard player or it wouldn't be as much an issue. Thanks for your help though Philippe.