Artillery Spotting

[Dion]

This post relates to both WinSPMBT & WinSPWW2 but since MBT came out before WW2 I decided to post it here. When calling in an artillery strike, will any unit, say A0, get a modifier if the target can be seen by a Forward Observer, or does the Foward Obserer have to see the target and call it in him self? Can any unit be a Forward Observer, or are they labeled as being such? Are there different types?

[gila]

I may be wrong but here goes.

A forward observer is just that,he reports enemy locations back to the AO. which then directs arty calls,with a better chance of hitting something.

Although fo's can plot arty,just not as good as the AO and slower in most cases,

Some arty formations have thier own Obs,then best to use them,if they have eyeballs on target,i assume.

[RightDeve]

No, A0 units won't get (bonus) modifier if he's calling an arty he can't spot.
That's simple; why bother employing an FO forward to spot if the one calling is A0. An FO is an FO, his task is to spot and call arty, in which he is very adept at, even compared to A0 units most of the time.

If you use FO to call, that FO is the one getting the modifier for spotting (or not spotting) the hex. And so with A0 or anything in the unit.

Hence you can see directly when it is your artillery turn some texts on the lower screen indicating whether this or that unit has LOS on the target.

AFAIK

[gila]

I'm just going by my experince when using FO's and i don't use them them much.
When i have, they seem have a slower call than the the AO and more obs eyes on targets,when in contact,make a difference on AO artry calls,esp in WW2 (which i play mainly) ,in MBT that may be different
Another point with obs, is you can place "gold spots" and have low call for arty on the spots.

[RightDeve]

Since those FOs are forward deployed units they tend to receive more suppression and casualties than A0s, so sometimes their ability to call in arty is severed.
Maybe that's the case. Also experience plays the role here, as HQ units *sometimes* have higher experience than FO units.

FO can be seen as an extended eyes and ears for the arty battery at the rear, their duty is to spot the target and give that information *directly* back to its parent unit i.e the arty battery; not to just spot it and give that borg eye to A0.
So the actual order of firing arty in RL (roughly) would be: any HQ unit (be it platoon HQ, coy, or bat) orders the shelling of a specified target to the FO, then the FO spots it and send firing order (adjustment, number of shells, etc) directly to the arty guns. HQ may intervene to stop the firing or order to fire next target.
In fact, some PBeM house rules at theblitz for example prohibit the use of non-FO units to call in arty to reflect the real FO application in (most) RL situation.

I think SP system is flexible enough in allowing both HQ units and FO units to call arty, because there are (many) occasions in RL where HQ is the sole unit able to call arty.
============

To the original question: Yes, FO and A0 (more properly HQ) are separate unit classes. But both have the ability to call in arty.


Regards

[Mobhack]

FOO - best spotters - Arty CMD rating + unit class benefits - (NB, the light helo class is a spotter too!)

A0 - is a better spotter than a normal HQ, but less than a FOO. Unless the player has changed it to a different unit class than HQ, of course!.

Other HQ element - Can call arty, if it has a radio. (Arty HQ unit will have decent art cmd C/F an inf or tank command element, but obviously not the unit class benefit that HQ, FOO, or lt helo bring)

All units that called for arty fires can upgrade their arty command ratings in a LC over time. So if your HQ (A0) is always calling for fires, and say your FOOs are always bought as support troops - he may well eventually exceed those in arty command rate.

In a LC (or any other battle really) - it is best to buy an FOO as the unit immediately after A0 (it's easier to find on the roster then).


Andy

[Suhiir]

As a former FO and (later in my career) HQ unit weenie I'll give you my take on things.

As an FO your primary job is knowing what fire support is available and locating targets where it'll do the most good.
Dumping air burst rounds on opposition armor is not a good use of available assets if you have regular HE available (not that armor is a good target for artillery in the first place).
FOs "speak" the same language as cannon cockers and almost always have direct access (via radio) to the Fire Direction Center or specific battery. So they can make the call quicker and get FAR better first round accuracy (as a side note I have a "professional" objection to the amount of scatter fire has in WinSPMBT ... but let's not go there).

HQ's rarely know the specifics of what indirect assets are available. Their calls for fire usually get whatever is available at the moment because they need help NOW not when a better suited asset is available. HQ units rarely have direct access to firing batteries. They have to go thru their chain of command to make contact. And while the HQ folks may know the procedure for calling in and adjusting fire they don't "do it for a living".

[gila]

In my stint in the AF,i was a SAC WO (weather obvs) where the main focus was on turbulace and lightning strikes,so what do i know about FO, AOP's ect!
What i have learned playing this game is you can always depend on the HQ's in a single battle.

[Miketee10022]

This thread has been incredibly helpful to me! I will be using FO's much more frequently and intelligently from now on. I almost always use HQ's to allocate fire, but will do things differently now that I have read this. Thanks so much!