Should I buy this game?

[Nethog]

I love turn-based strategy games with lots of depth, strategic options, and replay variability. I have played all generations of the Civ series, Alpha Centauri, and Space Empires IV. If I were to rank this *short list* of TBS games I would put Alpha Centauri as the best (it is an absolutely brilliant game) and rank Space Empires IV Last.

My reason for ranking Space Empires low is not due to its lack of depth and strategic possibilities, but to the user interface:
(A) There is not enough *visual* feedback to assess your overall current strategic status in the game without examining a dozen info windows each turn.
(B) It is difficult to keep track of enemy movement and aggression between turns since all you see is a snapshot of before and after.

Dominions 2 seems to have the same problem as Space Empires IV with respect to the above, however since I have only played the demo (did the walkthru twice) I don't have enough experience to make a final assessment.

So what I would see as a big improvement to Dominions 2 with respect to my specific issue is more information displayed on the world map (e.g. units), as well as dynamic information displayed between turns (e.g. see army movements between regions). Those of you who have played the Civ series or Alpha Centauri will understand what I am talking about.

So if I buy the game will I discover ways to work around my perceived problem with the game or will it become a coaster along side my Space Empires IV coaster?

[licker]

The movement system in Dom is sufficiently different from SEIV that I don't think you'll have the same problem. There is also alot of information contained on the main screen once you learn what the filters do. F1 is a great screen to help you manage your provinces and even commanders, though there is still some room for improvement.

All in all I'd say go for it, its not really that similar to SMAC, but it has its own charm.

[Arryn]

Originally posted by Nethog:
So if I buy the game will I discover ways to work around my perceived problem with the game or will it become a coaster along side my Space Empires IV coaster?

The score graphs viewable by pressing F2 should provide the info you desire, along with the Nation Overview you can get to by pressing F1.

What troubles me about your posting is that your primary evaluation of the game is how good it's histographs are and not about whether the AI is good, or the gameplay, or the depth of the strategies that you can play with, or the variety of units, equipment, and magic.

I have played SE4, and it, IMO, does not compare to Civ or SMAC. I do think that Dom does compare with those classics. The classics are more polished, but that's only to be expected given the size and budgets of the companies that made them.

In summary, if you buy Dom, and give it a fair shake, I think you will find it remaining on your HD for a long, long time.

But don't take my word for it. Play with the demo you downloaded some more. I think it'll grow on you.

[ February 12, 2004, 16:29: Message edited by: Arryn ]

[Gandalf Parker]

Well if the game does become a coaster for you this will be the first time Ive heard of it for the reasons you give.

Usually its not being able to get past the learning curve. Or a pre-disposition to only playing games with super pretty graphics.

As far as Ive been able to tell, anyone who really wants to play a strategic type of game has felt this game to be worth far more than its price in playing time it provides. In fact I think that most of us are still waiting on a coaster date so we can get a final breakdown on its worth. I had Dom1 for 3 years without reaching it.

[ February 12, 2004, 16:33: Message edited by: Gandalf Parker ]

[Saber Cherry]

The full game is exactly the same as the demo, just with more of everything. If you did not like the demo enough to be compelled to play it repeatedly, as I did, I doubt you would like the full game.

[PvK]

The interface is essentially as you see it, unless you haven't found all of the features. Its limits don't bother me, but tastes vary, and I tend to care much more about what goes on in the gameplay, than the convenience of my view of it. I like SEIV (especially the Gold Version, with mods), and wasn't particularly interested in Alpha Centauri. I've been entirely hooked on Dominions (I and II) for months now, and in general rave about it at any opportunity, though I know some people wish the interface were improved in various ways.

PvK

Originally posted by Nethog:
My reason for ranking Space Empires low is not due to its lack of depth and strategic possibilities, but to the user interface:
(A) There is not enough *visual* feedback to assess your overall current strategic status in the game without examining a dozen info windows each turn.

With respect to (A), my personal opinion is that you should not be able to divine your strategic status in one standing analytical report. It comes from the fact that the amount of information and it's impact is easier to define and use for me personally if it is funneled into sectional data (Research, Income, etc).

The Strategic Map has the following:
Total Income, Total Upkeep, Treasury.
Provincial Information in Provincial Defense, Population, Provencial Income, Resources, Scales (though these are a bit annoying, I'd rather a number or graphical representation for ease of reference), Unrest, Supplies, Supply Usage, and Tax.

The Strategic Map also includes a visual representation of Fort, Army Size, Temple and Commander In Province, Dominion (yours and your enemies).

Selecting an Individual Province will of course allow you to give orders to any and all Commanders in said province, which also includes a popup menu for Commands (like Blood Hunt) if you are unfamiliar with the Hotkeys.

The F1 Key gives a fairly accurate summary of your empire, allowing you to click and adjust specific aspects (like Taxes and Provincial Defense are common ones) as well as know what provinces have been searched and what availiable searching power you have in any particular province. Also a /sword/ icon next to a province name indicates troops present (when next to a Commander, troops under his command). This allows an easier access to independant recruitment and supplementation to your armies. It also provides you with Supplies and Supplies Used.

F7 Allows you to see your total represented Gem Income

F5 Total research levels and RP

F8 Magical Items within your Lab

There are of course UI improvements that are to be desired, but this is pretty much the standard for most games I have played, they have their sections where you gather your data for a particular aspect of the game. Where Dom2 differs is the impact and implementation of all the different aspects and their effect on your Empire.

(B) It is difficult to keep track of enemy movement and aggression between turns since all you see is a snapshot of before and after.

This can be the case if you base it only off of the Messages viewed at the beginning of the turn. Which I admit are slightly counter-intuitive.

Another visual aid is the fact that on the Strategic Map any province that has had a battle has a crossed sword icon on it (Turn on the Filter with 7 if not visible). This for me provides a better mental image of what happened in what context (I can find routing troops easier, check effects of Scales and their impact on the battle, see if there are reinforcements from me/enemy nearby, etc)

So if I buy the game will I discover ways to work around my perceived problem with the game or will it become a coaster along side my Space Empires IV coaster?

I wouldn't want to pick IW and Shrapnel's pockets by saying "Don't because you don't like it" but if you don't enjoy a game it has no purpose, so there would be no reason for you to play it if you have played the Demo and it has not appealed to you based on your initial impressions.

My standing advice is, play the Demo again, and again, and again. Play it with 1 AI on Easy on Aran and try things out, do things that are dumb or crazy. Cast spells you have no idea what they are going to do. Set up classic or weird formations of troops and orders.

If you like what you can do and how you can do it, you will like the game. If it seems like one big confusing, hairy mess but you can't seem to stop playing it, you'll like the game . If you can't handle the UI or the way information is detailed and can't get past it, you more than likely will not enjoy the game and noone here would want you to spend your hard earned money on something you wouldn't like.

[Johan K]

Of course you should buy this game! On the odd chance that you don't like it, please note that the CD has a pretty blue picture and should compliment your Space Empires coaster just fine.

/Johan K
Taking a stab at customer support

Not to mention that the manual can be used as a form of Avant Garde Art. Notice how the eyes follow you? Notice how the eyes follow?!

Creepy.

[Fyron]

How is the interface in SE4 bad? It provides all of the data you need, in appropriate windows. So does Dominions. So does Civ II, SMAC, etc.

Also, there is the "next ship available" button and "next fleet available" button that makes it a snap to find any and all ships that do not have orders, and then cycle through all fleets, respectively. Just like in any of those games you mentioned, other than Dominions, in fact. Sure, you have to click on other systems on the galaxy map to see other portions of your empire, but how is that really any different than clicking on different portions of the minimaps in Civ, SMAC, etc.?

It is impossible to assess how well you are doing in every aspect fo the game from just one window. It requires several different windows to give the information on different areas. This is exactly like in Civ, SMAC, etc., where you have to glance at a bunch of different windows to see how you are doing overall. And there is always the score window...

I think you missed the movement replay log buttons. They will show you all movement that occured in a particular system. There is also a button to show the movement of all ships. You certainly get a lot more than just a snap shot.

I have played SE4, and it, IMO, does not compare to Civ or SMAC.

That is odd, since it has more depth than either of those games.

[ February 13, 2004, 04:35: Message edited by: Imperator Fyron ]