Thread: MBT's
View Single Post
  #1819  
Old July 7th, 2024, 08:44 PM
FASTBOAT TOUGH's Avatar

FASTBOAT TOUGH FASTBOAT TOUGH is offline
Lieutenant General
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Kingsland, GA.
Posts: 2,821
Thanks: 777
Thanked 1,323 Times in 994 Posts
FASTBOAT TOUGH is on a distinguished road
Fallout Re: MBT's

I came across an article a couple of nights ago about a handful of issues concerning TAIWAN and its current tank situation. One tank I thought was in error of being in, however, this is why I do things the way I do, I research the topic regardless of what I might think my initial thoughts are on the matter. For that particular tank I will say the START would be impossible due to the refs I have and will have to be adjusted a minimum of 1.5 yrs. to the right.

For the next we couldn't have picked a better START for that tank unless we had access to a "crystal ball".

There will be finally new updates again to the M-60A3 which I feel they'll have enough of for a START of JAN 2025.

The last concerns the CM-12 I have thus far only found 1 source saying about 40 of these tanks were also updated with a 120mm and supporting systems much like what happened to the same number of M-60A3 tanks. The first ref. will get the ball rolling...
https://www.armyrecognition.com/news...ing-for-m1-mbt
(July 4, 2024)

1. M1A2T UNIT 025:
As some might remember we built this tank a year or two ago to address the export versions for this and other tanks that were built and submitted in last year's Patch. we had some discussion on this because this wasn't the first time TAIWAN, and the ABRAMS were used in the same breath going back at least 15yrs. So from the article...
"The United States has sold 108 M1 tanks to Taiwan. Currently, about 40 tanks have left the factory. The first batch of 38 tanks will be delivered to Taiwan in the fourth quarter of this year. (2 are the HERCULES Recovery versions.) " Since the source was undoubtably from the DOD, we just entered the 4th Qtr. on the JUL 1 (JUL.-SEP.) of the 2024 Fiscal Year. So, the START is good unless you wish to make it OCT. TAIWAN has been waiting for about 5yrs. now since they bought them when I posted on the matter. They've been training in the U.S. starting around 3yrs. ago if memory serves.
They are certainly ready to fully operate the 1st batch and I would suspect the next when it arrives in latter 2025.

2. M-60TAIWAN-P UNIT 026: When I saw this tank in the OOB I just wasn't so sure about it. But I looked into it, and I found some "stuff" I it however the refs just don't support the current START. This tank is a complete RESET a real term I haven't used since maybe I submitted the M1A1 FEP and a couple of other ABRAMS during that "Rabbit Hole DEBACLE" (Don was really happy with me on that, though about 3/4 of that were game legacy issues.). Given this refs date of March 17, 2022, you see my issue. So... "Upgraded tanks are expected to be redelivered in batches by October 2025. " Allowing for retooling and completely doing a FULL RESET; I really can't see more than 10 -15 tanks any earlier than START OCT. 2023 out of the 40 to be RESET. Conservatively speaking JAN. 2024. Also increase the SPEED based on the fact these also should have received the 1200HP engines the below are getting, replacing the original 750HP engines.
https://www.asianmilitaryreview.com/...ng-tank-boost/
(March 17, 2022/Reliable used in the past for OPLOT-T etc.)


M-60A3: Less the 40 above this leaves TAIWAN with 420 (Refs are saying 460) operational units. They will ALL be upgraded and RESET. Completion date is set for 2028.

TAIWAN/ADD/M-60A3M (OR "TM")/COPY/M-60TAIWAN-P*/AS FOLLOWS/START JAN 2025/SPEED/BASED ON 1200HP ENGINE VICE 750HP/EW 4*/RADIO 92/TI/GSR 40*/MG 105 M68 84/FC 50*/STABILISER 6*/REACTIVE*/HF 15/TF 15/TOP 15. // I also used M-60A3 UNIT 023 as these are M-60A3 tanks getting RESET. There is NO reason (Written or otherwise.) that these aren't getting the same systems and if you do a good read of the refs for this RESET they are the same exact ones the M-60TAIWAN-P had done on them less the armor upgrade. ERA is mine which I feel is a reasonable designer prerogative and likely to occur anyway. Also, half the fleet are getting are brand new 105mm tubes.
https://www.defencetoday.com/land/la...-battle-tanks/
(March 17, 2023)
https://www.taiwannews.com.tw/news/5897003
(June 29, 2024)
https://www.armyrecognition.com/news...ing-for-m1-mbt
(July 4, 2024)


CM-12: I'd feel better if the tank in the picture showed a 120mm, but it looks like a 105mm to me.
https://militaryview.com/taiwan-cm-1...midable-force/

Finally, while doing the RESET M-60A3 I discovered we don't have a M-60A3 in service unless I missed it. I don't know if we need to add a new one based on newer ammo. Also, I don't know if they had the 105mm guns upgraded as we have the last one in service ending in 1997. Since the all the refs I've come across didn't mention a 105mm grade I think it safe it didn't happen. An ammo upgrade however is more likely with the TTS in service. So...
TAIWAN/CHANGE/M-60A3/UNIT 021/END TO DEC 2025 VICE DEC 1997. //
OR
TAIWAN/ADD/M-60A3/COPY/M-60A3 UNIT 021/START UNKNOWN/END DEC 2025/ADD NEW 105mm AMMO TYPE. //
START based on when new ammo was available. This might still necessitate an end date change for UNIT 021 when the newer 105mm ammo was in use.

Also, TAIWAN (U.S.?) will this tank transporter this is the upgraded version AND is the ONLY one that can transport an M1A2 whatever. The previous version was found in Iraq to have issues with the M1A1 as those tanks were up armored during the conflict.
https://www.bing.com/videos/rivervie...77A7&FORM=VIRE
(In very beginning I believe it showed a 90 Ton Load capacity.)


Picture from JANES during USA Op testing.
Click image for larger version

Name:	Janes M70A1.jpg
Views:	192
Size:	83.5 KB
ID:	17039

My Dad while in Germany before we moved Stateside was attached to the 97th Tank Transport Division and was awarded a certificate for being made an official member of "The Royal Order of Dragooners" while stationed at Rommel's "Panzer Kasserine" just outside of Stuttgart (W.) Germany.

Regards,
Pat
__________________
"If something is not impossible, there must be a way of doing it." - Sir Nicholas Winton

"Ex communi periculo, fraternitas" - My career long mentor and current friend -QMCM/SS M. Moher USN Ret..

Last edited by FASTBOAT TOUGH; July 8th, 2024 at 01:27 AM..
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to FASTBOAT TOUGH For This Useful Post: