Experiment
 

This is the very early stage of an experiment in adding motion to the helo blades using the same cycling colours as the smoke uses in animation.....It may ultimately not work the way I hope it will and be scrapped but give me some feedback yeah or nay on this helicopter blade experiment

2x normal

https://forum.shrapnelgames.com/atta...1&d=1730555479

Re: Experiment
 

That looks very good. A lot better than it is now. I even think it looks better than moving blades. :up:

Re: Experiment
 

Would've replied sooner but, you know where I was.

A resounding YES, anything you guys can do to within the limits of the software to "cosmetically" make the game look better, I for one would most certainly support!!

Does this maybe open the door to allow damaged helos to "attempt" an auto-rotation landing!?!

Well, you can't blame a guy for trying!?! :p

Definitely caught my eye when I saw it. :cool:

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

Re: Experiment
 

I am not happy with the way the flashing greys are appearing so need to make adjustments but this is how they look now in the game at the brightest in the cycle. There are a number of experiments I need to try

https://forum.shrapnelgames.com/atta...1&d=1730626532

Re: Experiment
 

One step further.. I am still not happy with the way the colour cycling is going but I have more things to try

The radius of the blades has been increased a bit

how they look in a game and the encyclopedia at the brightest point of the cycle

https://forum.shrapnelgames.com/atta...1&d=1730646127

and the darkest point ( Cycling colours do not appear in the encyclopaedia )

https://forum.shrapnelgames.com/atta...1&d=1730646377

Further experiments will focus on the order the flashing greys are applied . Right now that is one gray on one side of the "blade" and another on the other side but I suspect that WYSIWYG as the cycling *seem* to follow a set order no matter which colour is applied.

It's a six second cycle series of six flashing greys but also one non flashing black and one non flashing grey and what I want to get is them appearing in sequence but it doesn't seem to work that way.....tests still ongoing as time allows

I had been thinking that all but the twin blade 'copters that have the blades fixed on the Icon draw their blades from one SHP file and IF I can get this looking more the way I hoped I could set up the Graphics folder to hold the original fixed blades set that could be swapped if anyone finds the "spinner-flasher" blades annoying so we are interested in opinions pro and con to this idea

Re: Experiment
 

Getting closer

This shows part of the sequence but it's still not quite the way I want it

https://forum.shrapnelgames.com/atta...1&d=1730648489

Re: Experiment
 

One more then I have to do other things

Progress

I can choose between clockwise and counter-clockwise ..... From the info I have found --Most American helicopter rotors turn counterclockwise when viewed from above, while French and Russian helicopters turn clockwise

Think it's going to be clockwise but I'm getting ahead of myself

I have got it so that the sequence does appear to go one way or the other but only two of the 6 stages and that may be enough but I have other things that need my attention today and will get back to this later but here are two most obvious parts of the sequence

A---> B
https://forum.shrapnelgames.com/atta...1&d=1730650561

Re: Experiment
 

I made a 20 second animated screenshot with a program (ClipClip) I have never used before and the learning curve using it with the game was steep

Click on the link to play it.


https://i.imgur.com/IBqMFZ4.mp4


You will notice that depending on the way the icon is facing changes the perceived rotation of the blades due to the way the game flips Icons so I will not be creating clockwise and counterclockwise options

Its still not exactly how I want it to work but it's better than the first attempt and I will continue to tinker with it but this may be " as good as it gets" using the games colour cycling code and palette

I could use some feedback good or bad

Re: Experiment
 

I Like it! Well done - always impressed with what you can manage with a few pixels and a limited palette!

Re: Experiment
 

A further experiment. This version has less streamers in the blades so it does not clutter up the icon as much and is a bit more subtle

https://i.imgur.com/9Zy5Hy1.mp4

Re: Experiment
 

I rather like that one better than the previous version.

Re: Experiment
 

This one show the same helos in smoke to get an idea of how the animation works together


https://i.imgur.com/SYrLwtg.mp4

Re: Experiment
 

Having reviewed all that you have posted to this point, I'm just thinking the rotors seem a little too "bold" possibly.

Wondering if they were a "little" lighter if they would present more of an "illusion" of movement within the rotation?

Otherwise, this is all looking "fantastic" especially the one in smoke to simulate battlefield conditions.

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

Re: Experiment
 

There are two grey sequences, light and dark and there is some light in the dark sequence and some dark in the light sequence but light and dark are predominantly light or dark and the order they appear is a fixed loop. I originally used a scatter of the greys but that just makes for a random sparkling of colour. What these lastest ones are is one colour on the left of a "blade" and another on the right side

I tried a couple different variations that did not appear to sequence in order so did not give the effect of spinning but the one I am using now does...sort of.. but there is no way to make the whole thing a "little" lighter

So.......I am already using the lighter series. WYSIWYG

There is a couple more things I can try but what I am trying to avoid is something so obvious it is distracting because anything new like this is a novelty..... what I don't want is it to become an annoyance after awhile so subtle is my aim

What you say is contradictory as in "the rotors seem a little too "bold" possibly.".....and "f they were a "little" lighter if they would present more of an "illusion" of movement"

The only way to make them less bold would be to make them darker not lighter and I could try using the dark series but then I suspect they would blend into the background more but that might depend on what terrain they are superimposed on.... making something that works with snow, desert sand and green is the real trick

Re: Experiment
 

I used four of the colours on this example..... two on the left of the blade and two on the right and I got lucky on the first try as if you watch this example closely you will see the brightest grey sequence four times in order



https://i.imgur.com/e8hPLsY.mp4


And that is the effect I have been working toward and NO, the sequence speed is fixed and cannot be made faster for one animation without speeding up them all


The next step is getting the yellow to follow the same patern

Re: Experiment
 

I think this is a great idea. I like how it is looking very much. That last one, in particular looks like it does the job very well.

Re: Experiment
 

Yup, I like the last one as well

Re: Experiment
 

This is how the yellows sequence for those interested

https://i.imgur.com/sWurZW0.mp4

and this is the sequence on the palette

https://forum.shrapnelgames.com/atta...1&d=1730726120

Re: Experiment
 

Progress.

I sorted out the yellow and now they follow the grey sequence ( sort of )

https://i.imgur.com/ebVJESd.mp4

The yellow uses 4 colours and the grey 6 so the sequence is not an exact match but it does progress in the same apparent direction

How it would look in the encyclopedia static ( 2x normal )
https://forum.shrapnelgames.com/atta...1&d=1730728259

Re: Experiment
 

I REALLY LIKE THIS LAST ONE. That sequence in the way it passes "over" the rotor blades does give those rotor blades that "illusion" of movement.

It's these "little things" you guys do that keep things fresh in the game. In the end I feel you'll be glad for it and find the time put into this worth it.

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

Re: Experiment
 

Three blade rotor test

I set up a master template. It has to be modified differently for each type but it gives me a guide to use that is far more consistent than trying to do it free-hand


https://i.imgur.com/U4ZBqz7.mp4

How it looks in the Encyclopedia

https://forum.shrapnelgames.com/atta...1&d=1730912761

Re: Experiment
 

Another experiment. This time with an icon that has the rotors built with the body rather than as a two-part Icon

I added a third row to this one ...two wasn't enough with rotors that size

https://i.imgur.com/s4x28hf.mp4

Re: Experiment
 

Looks great!

Re: Experiment
 

A high proportion of the helos were set up with a code change to use the rotors in a different file than the body of the helo but there are a lot that were added that were built body and rotor sequentially in the SHP file

Finding them all is going to be all kinds of "fun"

What I need to know is if the novelty of this is going to wear off and end up being annoying

https://forum.shrapnelgames.com/atta...1&d=1730974373

ALSO...... can I make the increased sizes work in the game and MOBHack and it looks like in some cases.....Not quite but MAYBE .... The max size MOBHack can handle that I know of right now is 109x109 pixels and if that is indeed the limit as I belive it is then some icons using two separate blades might get the changed rotors but need a bit of trimming to fit into the max allowed size

in the case of the Yak-24U a bit of he blade graphic had to be trimmed but it's not really noticeable

https://i.imgur.com/1GWUz9O.mp4



Testing continues...... the rabbit warren is extensive but I need to know if this is not something that the novelty will wear thin quick

Re: Experiment
 

I need some comments on this

The max size MOBHack will display is an image 109 pixels wide
The larger helos with rotors at both ends are a "problem" but I think this works



https://i.imgur.com/zt7Uetc.mp4

The front and back of the blade swirls have to be cut off, but it does leave most intact,......the question is......... is it really noticeable to you ? I see it but I also see its not too bad

Re: Experiment
 

What you mention doesn't bother me at all, as the illusion of spin is vitally more important than precise dimensions.

Re: Experiment
 

Crunch time for those that are interested and those that might not be
This project will take me a while to complete but when it's done there is no going back

Attached is Icon0001.shp in a ZIP

Extract this to the MBT Game Data/ Graphics folder

There is one icon used for mi-8 and mi-17 changed to "rotating" blades and it can be found in these OOB's

https://forum.shrapnelgames.com/atta...1&d=1731073837

Build a game using these and fly them around to test or build a game and play it. The date ranges in the OOB's for the units that use them is 1968 to the end of the years covered.

Use summer months as this is a "green" helo and while it may be used as green in some desert or winter set ups it is used as green in the summer for all listed

Comments yea or nay are needed before I dive into the very deep end.

This is a much more involved project than I expected it to be as every helo in the game will be changed and while many use common files for their rotors many more than I thought at first do not

Remember that MOBHack does not show the rotors but the game does

Re: Experiment
 

I agree with CH-47 and similar helos, given the limitations it looks perfectly fine as is.

I saw the list so guess you'll be busy. I think though better than dealing with one of my lists!?! And probably less stressful!?! :D

So, in the finest tradition of the service I volunteered to serve in...

"Chief of the Watch flood all main ballast tanks and on the 1MC pass DIVE, DIVE" And one of our IC men somehow managed to "scourge up" a KLAXON from a WWII era submarine just like in the movies.
https://www.bing.com/videos/rivervie...123&ajaxhist=0

With the following you'll hear why we "traded" it out.
https://www.bing.com/videos/rivervie...5187&FORM=VIRE

The "how" will remain a SECRET concerning its acquisition. :p

Important to remember as you traverse the "Rotor Sea" to ensure you have one more surface than dive while carrying out this mission!! :cool:

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

Re: Experiment
 

What I need is feedback from people who have used them in a game and that "list" is just the units that used that one icon

Re: Experiment
 

Tested some of the Helos as Russia in 1988. Seems to work the way it should. :up:

To be honest, I dunno whether I like it or not, it certainly looks nice, but also quite different. Maybe just a matter of having to get used to it. :o

Have you considered making it an optional feature? Like with the minefield icons...

Re: Experiment
 

We could do that but it's one file for the mines and 26 for the rotors

It is different but change always is

Re: Experiment
 

I’ll run some test tomorrow for ya.

Re: Experiment
 

Tried it out. Did a test scenario with a green map & also bought some helicopters with the old rotor graphics.

TBH I was not convinced.

OK the spinning rotor effect is nice BUT I think it clutters the graphics too much.

If there are troops in the same hex they are practically invisible.

Leave it as it is now.

EDIT Maybe making it optional as someone suggested in a previous post could be better..

and yes I understand that it needs more work to do this,

Re: Experiment
 

I have multiple copies of the game so I can set up direct comparisons and the difference for me between a hex with a helo and infantry comparing static and spinning blades and I do not see that the infantry in the same hex is "practically invisible "

https://forum.shrapnelgames.com/atta...1&d=1731709355

It is even less with Russian infantry using the icon I posted as an example

https://forum.shrapnelgames.com/atta...1&d=1731710246


Those screenshots were taken at zoom level 6 so two above what you see when the game loads

Re: Experiment
 

After playing a little I can say "I like it"

I think with some helos the rotors look smaller than before - noticeable in your 2nd (Russian) example above - which may look strange on some of the bigger boys.

Re: Experiment
 

I did that to minimize the motion effect, standardize the blade sizes, and lessen the perceived amount of space the larger helos occupy

Re: Experiment
 

I think the small blades makes the helicopter look "toyish", like a Godzilla movie. The spinning effect looks fine though, pretty outstanding. I think I could get used to it.

Re: Experiment
 

The scenario I set was in a wooded area not clear as you have here.

Maybe I need better glasses :laugh:.

Re: Experiment
 

No worries, there will be a static rotor set included with the next update for those who don't like the motion effect along with the motion set.

The game will be set up with the motion rotors and both sets will be included in a separate folders under Graphics

Re: Experiment
 

This is a great idea Don. I really like the animation to simulate motion. Well done!