Egypt sandbag HMG pit with NVG circa 1957
 

It has a vision of 5. Anyone seen Mummy? Could by some ancient magic :)

Re: Egypt sandbag HMG pit with NVG circa 1957
 

It is very , very common for sandbag MG Pit's from that time period from virtually all nations that have them to also have vision 5 which just means they see a minimum of 250 yards


Don

Re: Egypt sandbag HMG pit with NVG circa 1957
 

Why should the mk. 1 eyeball have any kind of vision rating? Without remote sensing technology, something I doubt the Egyptians had at that point, the vision rating should be 0. It's not normally a huge deal, but when the game gives the x<5 vision rating signifying a raining cats and dogs blizzard snowstorm volcano eruption ash cloud then it gives that class of fortification an ahistorical advantage.

Re: Egypt sandbag HMG pit with NVG circa 1957
 

Actually the answer is very, very simple.

When you dig a MG Pit (or any fighting position for that matter) one of the things you do is go out on the enemy side and look and probably actually walk the probable avenues of approach to the position. Back at the position the gunner makes notes (and often marks of some sort) indicating the proper direction to point the weapon to hit that avenue. Thus if anyone attacks during reduced visibility (night, fog, heavy rain) the position can "see" and fire fairly accurately within a couple hundred meters.

So while they don't really "see" via eyeball an MG position can sense and fire on the enemy at 5 hexes.

This help?

I'm sure every person on this forum that ever been in combat arms in any military in the world has seen and done just this more times then they care to remember.

Re: Egypt sandbag HMG pit with NVG circa 1957
 

Makes sense to me.

Re: Egypt sandbag HMG pit with NVG circa 1957
 

Could it also be used to represent the crew firing flares to illuminate the surroundings?

Re: Egypt sandbag HMG pit with NVG circa 1957
 

That as well.

It represents many forms of technical means available to a defender of a fixed position that really do not need specific games rules that simply add unnecessary complications.

So - range cards, MGs firing along fixed lines, trip flares, tin cans tied to wires, Pte Snuffy's pet terrier barking, an individual (not on map) sentry wandering about or whatever.

Just think of it as a general purpose "defenders advantage" - without any requirement for Pte Snuffy to pay 1 point for dog food per rule 2712.19.13.145 (like a certain board game tended to get with its add-ons to add-ons, or another one that had a specific water consumption rule for pasta for Italian troops..) :)!

Andy

Re: Egypt sandbag HMG pit with NVG circa 1957
 

Survivor of ASL ? :)

Re: Egypt sandbag HMG pit with NVG circa 1957
 

Never bought it - 1970s prices were ridiculous (£25 a unit?). I think my brand-new 125cc Honda CG125 cost about £190 as a comparison.

A couple of guys in the wargames club did play each other (those who had splashed out on umpteen very expensive boxed sets). Since they were unwilling to loan out to others, only they knew the system. We just watched over their shoulders as they argued between shuffling bits of paper on a little hex-map.

Everyone else bought a few dozen 1/300 models at 15p a pop, and a WRG rule book for a couple of pounds. The club provided tables and terrain.

When SP came out, it was the look & feel of proper 1/300 wargaming that sold it to me. You could turn those naff hexes off, which added to the effect.


Cheers
Andy

Re: Egypt sandbag HMG pit with NVG circa 1957
 

SP always reminds me of Command Decision, if you ever played that? Might be a bit later than WRG though. That was a bit before my time :)

More of a 15mm guy though.

Re: Egypt sandbag HMG pit with NVG circa 1957
 

Firefly (WW2) and Challenger (Modern) rule-sets by TTG replaced WRG in the 80s.

Command decision I think I saw played by a few folk at the club, but it's a US import so still not cheap then (90s?). Also, it was not a satisfying scale (1 vehicle=platoon, not 1 to 1). Plus, all the inter-club and the nationals and the world team used WRG, then TTG rules (WRG rules had lost the plot with their later editions espousing rather convoluted and obtuse command and control rules, and thus losing the simplicity of play the originals had, TTG rules were playable for large battles).

25mm then 15mm Ancients of course were strictly WRG rules from 1st edition through DBM etc.

I have not looked at the Derby site for a decade or more - but here is their rules page for this year (it is unclear what modern 6mm rules are in use from that). http://www.worldwargames.co.uk/

The World Teams at Derby got players from all over - I think I fought American, French, Dutch, South African players as well as UK & Irish ones over the years (modern and ancients). Though now it seems to be individual entries rather than 3-player teams (in the 80s and 90s it was held in a big conference and snooker centre in the middle of the town - now seems to be in the Uni campus?). But I last went down in about 97 or so.

Cheers
Andy

Re: Egypt sandbag HMG pit with NVG circa 1957
 

Ahhh 1/285th battles and ASL *zones out as she wander off to memory land*

Re: Egypt sandbag HMG pit with NVG circa 1957
 

Then there is also the usage of tracer ammunition. Not that it really helps with spotting the enemy, but at least you get an idea where the rounds are hitting home. And they look impressive, which might have a morale effect.

Re: Egypt sandbag HMG pit with NVG circa 1957
 

Maybe for less trained troops or civilians.
Most machinegunners I know take the time to remove the things from the ammunition belts because they do a FAR better job revealing your position to the enemy then anything else.

For aircraft, helos, tanks, etc they usually just leave them in ... you'd have to be blind and deaf not not see or hear them :eek:

Re: Egypt sandbag HMG pit with NVG circa 1957
 

In WW2 several experienced pilots would not use tracers, since the flashes of an initial missing burst flying by an unalerted target would often trigger evasive movement by "waking him up" .

Some pilots and/or units did have a few tracer rounds inserted as a bunch at or near the end of the ammo as a low ammo warning. (That may not have been a good idea, if the enemy clued onto it.)

Irrelevant for a ground game, but perhaps interesting trivia :)!

For us ground pounders:

In the 70s (when I was in the infantry) it was part of the tactical doctrine for riflemen to keep 5 or so tracer in a stripper clip (or loose?) for Target Indication ("Watch my tracer").

Where the rounds were to come from, nobody actually said but presumably extracted from MG link ammo. We never actually carried any such on exercises etc, but the use of tracer as a target indication method was mentioned in the manual, and in lectures on basic field-craft (GRIT was the acronym - Group Range, (target) Indication, Type of fire ).

See this thread, post #10 http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums...e-Drill-Orders, which sounds familiar.

"Watch my tracer" was given in the manuals and lectures back then as a valid part of the "I" in GRIT. Seem to recall it was to be reserved (for individual riflemen as opposed to the gun group) for difficult circumstances or for indicating to e.g. accompanying tanks (since you had to jiggle some loose/clipped rounds out of your pocket and into a mag and then get it onto the weapon to do so, presumably).

As I said - we never practised tracer T/I, as amongst other things it is I think not good for the SLR bore to have too many tracers stuffed down it. Plus it would have to be practised on a range for safety - and live firing ranges usually don't have any interesting terrain features to practice target indication upon.

Not really of interest for a game at the SP level, but you may find useful if playing one of those squad-level games online (or are about to take an office team out for a paintball weekend). If so, this PDF (written for airsofting I think - but covers the basics) may be useful. http://www.arniesairsoft.co.uk/artic...fieldcraft.pdf

Cheers
Andy

Re: Egypt sandbag HMG pit with NVG circa 1957
 

When I was doing my military service, we usually had quite a good access to tracer rounds of various calibers. Being in the air defense artillery might have had something to do with that - tracers were good for observing and correcting your fire, and we did not mind the fly-boys knowing that somebody was trying to gun them down.

Once we ended up spending part of a day visiting a defensive ground combat range on another garrison. This consisted of a large area of ground filled with rocks, holes in the ground and undergrowth of various types, with the actual firing positions placed on trenches slightly higher up. On some of those holes there were placed radio controlled pop-up targets, that would pop up on radio command and then go down when hit (though some of them ended up failing and staying up regardless of multiple hits). We ended up getting around 20 tracer rounds each, and then lined up on the trenches and started gunning down the targets as they went up. Sometimes the bullet would hit a rock and the tracer would end up flying high into the air from the point of impact. Afterwards when cleaning up the range we found that several of the radio antennas had also become casualties due to stray rounds hitting them - at least the radios survived intact, due to being placed in the holes in the ground.

There was also another similar range with an old wrecked vehicle on it, for practicing with anti-tank weapons. We all ended up shooting a practice round with a LAW. Cannot recall what that target vehicle was.