Torches in the Night: MA, Newbies (10> mp games) only, CBM 1.7 (CRASHED AND BURNED)
 

After playing a fair bit of single player and a single small-map direct-connect game, I've decided it's time to jump into a larger PBEM game. Since there are none currently recruiting, and my favorite age (MA) is less popular among noob games, I've decided to start one myself. Here are the parameters, including one house-rule.

Map: Primea with semirandomization (150 land, 9 sea). Found here. I've played a couple of SP campaigns on srand'ed maps, and I feel the game is a lot less interesting without them. There are no preset starting locations for underwater nations, so starting as them isn't recommended (there isn't much water anyway).

Map settings: I'll be using several setting tweaks to help keep things managable for new players like myself.
Magic research will be set to standard. Independents strength will be set to 7 to slow down expansion, but all players will start with 2 provinces to compensate (and to avoid making SC pretenders mandatory). Standard victory. Magic site frequency set to 45.

Players: 7, including me. I personally find 7 to be a more thematic number for the nature of Dominions than 8 or 6. Since this is MA, with no absurdly overpowered nations like late-age Ermor and Mictlan, no nations are banned. (Edit: It was suggested that Ashdod be banned.) Here is the roster as it stands now.

1. dark7element: Arcoscephale - The Old Kingdom
2. Xerxes2504: Shinuyama - Land of the Bakemono
3. Nightfall: Pythium - Emerald Empire
4. Corvus: Ulm - Forges of Ulm
5. P3D - Abysia - Blood and Fire
6. bgifu: T'ien Chi - Imperial Bureaucracy
7. nozshand: Pangaea - The Age of Bronze
8. Ragnelle: Eriu - Last of the Tuatha

Diplomacy rules:
There will be no arbitrary enforcement of treaties. If your "friend" seems to be massing a huge army of elite sacred troops on your borders, you may want to take his explanation that it's a training exercise with a grain of salt.

Roleplaying and fluff:
I have a confession: I'm one of those wretched, basement-dwelling creatures called 'roleplayers' who likes to give their pretender a unique backstory and use flowery Tolkien-esque language in diplomatic messages. Roleplaying is encouraged but not required. However, please at least refrain from using 'leetspeak', and refer to other players by their pretender name rather than their forum name.

No Ashdod I've never played with/against them, but apparently MA Ashdod is severely overpowered. Since this is a newbie game, I don't want any nations with advantages only a vet can counter.

No elephant rush against other players. It's never happened to me, but I've heard that this is a very annoying tactic for a new player to get overrun by. Elephants may not be used offensively against other players until year 3 (you can still use them against independents, or to defend against other players).

Re: Torches in the Night: MA, Newbies (>5 mp games) only, CBM 1.6 [6 slots open]
 

I think you missed Lightless lanterns and jade knives for the restricted list? Also difficult research and limited research items will mean a loooonnnng time before anything decent is researched giving a huge advantage to bless nations.

Re: Torches in the Night: MA, Newbies (>5 mp games) only, CBM 1.6 [6 slots open]
 

Yes, lightless lantern and jade knife should be on the list also.

And you're right, setting magic research to difficult will give too much of an advantage to Bless nations. I'll make it standard research.

Re: Torches in the Night: MA, Newbies (>5 mp games) only, CBM 1.6 [6 slots open]
 

Yup, why did they boost Ulm so much, every other nation is useless now. I'm going to practice my Ashdod a bit because playing them has at least some honor, unlike those Ulmish powergamer wretches.

I also like your decision to reduce the effectiveness of Gale Gate, that global was too powerful compared to eg Astral Nexus.

Re: Torches in the Night: MA, Newbies (>5 mp games) only, CBM 1.6 [6 slots open]
 

what is this i dont even

Re: Torches in the Night: MA, Newbies (>5 mp games) only, CBM 1.6 [6 slots open]
 

Hello! Always great to see a new player organizing a game.

In case you couldn't tell, Juffos was being sarcastic. You probably don't want Ashdod in the game as they are widely thought to be the strongest nation in all of dominions. I agree that the rest of MA is quite well balanced.

Also, the general consensus seems to be that Ulm remains irredeemably weak even with the buffs it received in CBM 1.7. I would be very surprised if it were overpowered.

Where you put ">5 games only", I guess you meant "<5 games only"? You should probably change it otherwise new players might not bother reading the thread.

Re: Torches in the Night: MA, Newbies (>5 mp games) only, CBM 1.6 [6 slots open]
 

you crack me up. good joke

Re: Torches in the Night: MA, Newbies (>5 mp games) only, CBM 1.6 [6 slots open]
 

Ah yes, the always fun game of piling on the newbie. His offense? He took the initiative to create a game reflecting his opinions. Disagree with his opinions? You could offer constructive feedback, like llamabeast did, so that dark7element might have more luck recruiting players. Or you could deride him for his views. It appears the latter option was the more popular choice. Well done.

Re: Torches in the Night: MA, Newbies (>5 mp games) only, CBM 1.6 [6 slots open]
 

Or you could start white-knighting even when obviously not required. I think my post was more informative and helpful than yours.

Re: Torches in the Night: MA, Newbies (>5 mp games) only, CBM 1.6 [6 slots open]
 

Yes.
Yes.
No.
Yes.
OH YES!


There. Another meaningless reply to a meaningless reply about a meaningless reply in a hilarious thread.

dark7element, just use cbm1.7. And please do elaborate what this super-enchantment gate is. Do you mean Gale Gate?

Re: Torches in the Night: MA, Newbies (>5 mp games) only, CBM 1.6 [6 slots open]
 

Obviously not required? Your derision towards dark7element's game idea is what wasn't required.

Right, here's the predictable attempt to pretend that your posts were attempting to do anything more than be obnoxious. Sorry, not buying.

Are all recruitment threads hilarious? Or maybe just the ones that vary from standard settings? Or maybe just the ones that vary from standard settings and are posted by a new player? Yes, that sounds about like the kind of target you'd aim for. But hey, we do agree your replies are meaningless.

Right, use CBM 1.7 (is it still beta?) - not CBM 1.6, or vanilla, or your own mod. Because Quitti says so. Laughable.


The amusing thing about JuffosQuitti is the synchronized posts. It almost makes you think they're one person, using one position to feed another in the games he/she joins. But maybe the sad truth is they're just so close they even troll in tandem.

Re: Torches in the Night: MA, Newbies (>5 mp games) only, CBM 1.6 [6 slots open]
 

When I saw another 8 replies, I thought I'd finally gotten some players joining. Imagine my dismay when I found out what it really was.

Apparently my ideas have not gone over well. I'm going to just forget about the special rules and make this an ordinary CBM 1.7 game.

Is strength 7 independents + one extra starting province really that weird? If noone wants to play that, I guess I can change to standard values.

Re: Torches in the Night: MA, Newbies (10> mp games) only, CBM 1.7 [6 slots open]
 

Man, You make your game ANY way you want it...It is YOUR game and if someone doesn't like the way you set it up, they can play somewhere else.

I made a game one time that I said no one could go in or cross water for any reason, and then used a map with a BUNCH of water. Everyone screamed and yelled and when it was all over....

The ones that wanted to play did and we had a pretty good game, because the guys that played WANTED to.

Don't be intimidated, but do listen to guys that are actually going to join your game, but keep to your original idea. If no one joins, then that tells you maybe your idea wasn't that good at that time.

C'mon guys, give the new guy a break:(

Re: Torches in the Night: MA, Newbies (10> mp games) only, CBM 1.7 [6 slots open]
 

My reason for not joining (besides my first 3 MP games) is CBM (dont care for the number).

I find it interesting that the other two newbie games I play that got organisized (relativly fast) on this page are vanilla.
Honestly CBM looks like something for an old (dont want to say veteran ;) ) player, who knows the game in and out and want some change for the sake of change alone.

For newbies who struggle to learn the basic game? I keep to vanilla until that gets stale, but since I found the game <2 months ago, that should'nt be in the near future.

Re: Torches in the Night: MA, Newbies (10> mp games) only, CBM 1.7 [6 slots open]
 

First of all, the thread title was misleading. I've changed it. Anyone who has played fewer than 10 games is welcome to join.

When you look at what changes CBM actually makes, I think you'll find that they are much more pro-newbie than anti-newbie.

I would never want to play a long campaign with vanilla, because you're forced to engage in hefty micromanagement. You have to spend upwards of half an hour shuffling around dwarven hammers, skull mentors, owl quills and such every single turn. Most new players either don't know how to do this effectively or get tired of it quickly.

CBM also attempts to make the various military units more balanced. This helps prevent new players for being de-facto penalized by building underpowered units because they don't know any better.

Lastly, CBM's restrictions on dowsing rods is a desperately needed nerf for blood nations. I'll admit I haven't PLAYED many multiplayer games, but I've read numerous AARs and played a lot of singleplayer. A "properly" (big scare quotes) set-up blood economy is as tedious as it is overpowered, the worst possible combination if you ask me.

CBM isn't a 'specialty' mod. It isn't designed to fundamentally change the game mechanics. It doesn't add or remove any nations. The only purpose of the CBM is to make the game more balanced, and reduce micromanagement. How is THAT bad for new players?

Re: Torches in the Night: MA, Newbies (10> mp games) only, CBM 1.7 [6 slots open]
 

This man is speaking the truth, as much as it pains me to admit it.

Though, a few pointers. Ulm is not overpowered. Not in any era. Not with any currently existing widespread-usage mod. Indes 7 is fine. 2 starting provs is fine. CBM 1.6 over 1.7 because of ulm is not. "honor system" of limiting items is not - you could just as well make them unique with a small mod and it'd be much more easy. Elephant rushes are not overpowered, especially with CBM.

Also, it's the general rule of the internet: "Bash the newbie who is/seems to be clueless about thing x". It's not like dominions would be an exception. Only place I know that is friendly to the newbies is the dom irc channel, and that's when Sombre and Jurri are either drunk or absent.


There. Constructive criticism. Now then.

Some. Not all. This one was.

No.

No, vets can be idiots too. I'm sure you've noticed some around.

Yes.

Must be the mentality. We've both grown up on the harsh grounds of DEM INTERNETS.

Re: Torches in the Night: MA, Newbies (10> mp games) only, CBM 1.7 [6 slots open]
 

Since I didn't get into late play in MP by myself, I cant really argue if or if not CBM is more Newbie friendly.
(I sub for Abysia in an CBM 1.6, but didn't get there by myself.)

But you are reinforcing my argument actually ;-)
Without late MP-Game experience, how should Newbies know that its to much micro for them?

And to be honest, Clams and Hammers aren't to much micro for me in SP.

As for the Balance, my understanding of CMB is, that CBMis not trying to Balance the game, but to make underused 'things' more attractive. (not the same - and while I didn't took a deep look into CBM, I'll take the easy way and belief Frank Trollman and His arguments when he says "not balanced")

As to your last point.
How does it not fundamentally change the game?
If it took a nation out. I would'nt notice it, as long as it was not exactly the nation I wanted to play.
But the changes from CMB all over the place?
Where I have to learn the game from the beginning again?
(Might not be the case. Newbie speaking here. But thats the impression I get.)

I'll stop derailing you thread now, but you now at least know why I didn't sign up.

Re: Torches in the Night: MA, Newbies (>5 mp games) only, CBM 1.6 [6 slots open]
 

:re:

Check the OP now, Ulm isn't bashed anymore, Ashdod is banned and casting Gale Gate won't be a suicide. My post had the exact effect I intended.

But how have you contributed to the thread? You have done nothing but caused reasonless drama in this thread which should be dedicated to setupping the game and recruiting players, not flaming them. And yet still you try to pile the responsibility onto me. Have you no shame?

I think we will soon see Godwin's Law in effect ;)

Re: Torches in the Night: MA, Newbies (10> mp games) only, CBM 1.7 [6 slots open]
 

Hey there,
I would really like to join, hope you dont mind, since this would be my very first mp-game.

I would like to play:

Shinuyama, Land of the Bakemono

Re: Torches in the Night: MA, Newbies (10> mp games) only, CBM 1.7 [6 slots open]
 

Just to jump into the bandwagon once again - if this is the case, you are not using them correctly. Or then you like micromanagement over everything else.

Good luck with this game, thugs seemed to win this round again!

Re: Torches in the Night: MA, Newbies (10> mp games) only, CBM 1.7 [6 slots open]
 

Hallelujah, a post by someone who is actually interested in joining the game. Xerxes2504, you've given me hope that this game will eventually get off the ground, and for that I thank you.

Re: Torches in the Night: MA, Newbies (10> mp games) only, CBM 1.7 [5 slots open]
 

By the way, you haven't mentioned a server, I'm assuming llamaserver.

I'll take Pythium please.

Re: Torches in the Night: MA, Newbies (10> mp games) only, CBM 1.7 [5 slots open]
 

I'll join in as Ulm, I like a challenge. Plus never tried it with 1.7. Never tried PBEM before, apologies in advance if I fluff things up.

Also, a question, given some people enjoy naming their pretenders, ridiculously long, crazy, or odd names, may we refer to them by their nations name as well?

Re: Torches in the Night: MA, Newbies (10> mp games) only, CBM 1.7 [5 slots open]
 

Huh, you've been very unlucky with all the semi-helpful comments in this thread dark7element - this doesn't usually happen!

Good luck with the game, looks like it will be fun.

Re: Torches in the Night: MA, Newbies (10> mp games) only, CBM 1.7 [5 slots open]
 

Yes, that's fine. And yes, we'll be using the llamaserver.

Re: Torches in the Night: MA, Newbies (10> mp games) only, CBM 1.7 [3 slots open] (PB
 

Add me with Abysia.

Re: Torches in the Night: MA, Newbies (10> mp games) only, CBM 1.7 [2 slots open] (PB
 

I'll take Tien Chi please.

Re: Torches in the Night: MA, Newbies (10> mp games) only, CBM 1.7 [1 slot open] (PBE
 

count me in, i'll let you know my nation after work

Re: Torches in the Night: MA, Newbies (10> mp games) only, CBM 1.7 [full] (PBEM)
 

la agartha

Re: Torches in the Night: MA, Newbies (10> mp games) only, CBM 1.7 [full] (PBEM)
 

:confused:
Game is MA

Re: Torches in the Night: MA, Newbies (10> mp games) only, CBM 1.7 [full] (PBEM)
 

my bad, MA pan then

Re: Torches in the Night: MA, Newbies (10> mp games) only, CBM 1.7 [full] (PBEM)
 

Well, we've got 7 players, as many as I'd asked for originally, but just last night I got a private message from another player interested in joining. This is a big map, so I've decided to go ahead and let them in on the game also. Hopefully this will only delay the beginning of the game by a day or so.

Re: Torches in the Night: MA, Newbies (10> mp games) only, CBM 1.7 [full] (PBEM)
 

The last of the Tuatha shall answer the call. Too long have we lived, hidden away in the mists, watching men squander what is rightfully ours. Though our realm shall eventually fade, still we strive to see beyond the impossible.

Be on your guard. ;)

(I am the player - had to bug Caradryan to message you for me. Sorry for the delay! Put me down as MA Eriu please.)

Re: Torches in the Night: MA, Newbies (10> mp games) only, CBM 1.7 [full] (PBEM)
 

The game has been created. Go ahead and send your pretenders in. Don't forget to enable CBM 1.71 WHILE you're making your pretender, as it affects the creation process.

For Ragnelle and anyone else who might be unfamiliar with the process (I was until recently), email your pretender file to [email protected]. Make sure 'TorchesInTheNight' is the subject of your email (without the ' ' apostrophes of course).

I would REALLY rather you not password-protect your pretenders, the llamaserver FAQ says that can cause problems. Unless you can somehow hack into another player's email, there's no way you can cheat by examining someone else's turn. It makes it difficult to get a sub when people drop out (and people usually do).

Get your pretenders in, and with luck, we can start soon.

Re: Torches in the Night: MA, Newbies (10> mp games) only, CBM 1.7 [full] (PBEM)
 

Submitted.

Re: Torches in the Night: MA, Newbies (10> mp games) only, CBM 1.7 [full] (PBEM)
 

Done.

Re: Torches in the Night: MA, Newbies (10> mp games) only, CBM 1.7 [full] (PBEM)
 

I just thought I should let everyone know that I've changed my mind at the last minute about which nation I want to play. I've read a number of guides and strategies about MA Man and they all agree that it's a very weak nation, possibly even worse than Ulm. I'm not really that good a player, so I can't afford to play a nation that takes an expert to use. I'm changing my nation to Arcoscephale, not a powerhouse by any means but reasonably competitive. If anyone else wants to change nations let me know.

Re: Torches in the Night: MA, Newbies (10> mp games) only, CBM 1.7 [full] (PBEM)
 

If you were going in to man without any real plan then I could understand that, since you would probably get curb stomped by the first semi-competent opponent you met. But really you should always have a fairly detailed plan going into any game. Long term goals, expansion plans, its pretty important to have at least a rough idea of what you're going to do before you start the game, with any nation.

Re: Torches in the Night: MA, Newbies (10> mp games) only, CBM 1.7 [full] (PBEM)
 

I did have a plan. I was going to try and rush towards Mother Oak and Gift of Health, while not taking any scales of growth to save points, in order to counteract crone mortality, which is one of Man's biggest weaknesses. I was planning to spam tons of castles and aggressively trade for air gems to summon the air elemental royalty as a SC, to compensate for my crappy national troops. That strategy allowed me to defeat a bunch of AI players set to 'mighty' difficulty. But even against inexperienced players, it probably wouldn't work very well. Arcoscephale has crappy troops also, but at least their mages are good (and don't require massive effort to stop them from dying of old age constantly).

Re: Torches in the Night: MA, Newbies (10> mp games) only, CBM 1.7 [full] (PBEM)
 

[Having MA man would have been an excellent thematic ally/nemesis.

Ah, well. I would hardly call Man weak when we have Ulm and myself on the battlefield. :P]

Re: Torches in the Night: MA, Newbies (10> mp games) only, CBM 1.7 [full] (PBEM)
 

Eriu is at least good at raiding, and Ulm at least has good forging capability. Man has neither of those. I love their fluff, but they're too hard to use properly. Maybe in the future CBM will make wardens worthwhile, but as it is, you have to be an expert to make Man competitive at all.

Re: Torches in the Night: MA, Newbies (10> mp games) only, CBM 1.7 [full] (PBEM)
 

You would be amazed at how effective bardspam usually is against new players. Plus longbowmen are pretty drat good en masse, especially buffed. Shutting down an enemies recruitment and income in one turn can be pretty devastating, especially if they don't know the counter. If you move before they can get counters to archers your longbowmen will rape, especially if you can get to flaming arrows quickly.

Re: Torches in the Night: MA, Newbies (10> mp games) only, CBM 1.7 [full] (PBEM)
 

Well crap, I had 2 middle age Ulm pretenders premade and it looks like I sent in the wrong one, and it has a password... This might muddle things a bit... ah well.

Re: Torches in the Night: MA, Newbies (10> mp games) only, CBM 1.7 [full] (PBEM)
 

Happy for a restart if necessary, my 'get the worst possible starting position on the map' power worked again! :doh:

Re: Torches in the Night: MA, Newbies (10> mp games) only, CBM 1.7 [full] (PBEM)
 

Assuming there are no objections from other players, I'd be glad to go ahead and restart. Goodness knows Ulm needs all the help it can get.

Re: Torches in the Night: MA, Newbies (10> mp games) only, CBM 1.7 [full] (PBEM)
 

The pretenders are only slightly different, slightly reworked the magic paths when I made one without a password for this game. I don't particularly want to restart unless it might really cause problems for the game with the password...

Re: Torches in the Night: MA, Newbies (10> mp games) only, CBM 1.7 [full] (PBEM)
 

Im fine with a restart. Got with my scale picks worst possible starting location.

Re: Torches in the Night: MA, Newbies (10> mp games) only, CBM 1.7 [full] (PBEM)
 

I really don't care either way, as the Tuatha now have no in-game motivation to actually fight. :P

Are we still taking our turns or are we restarting?

Re: Torches in the Night: MA, Newbies (10> mp games) only, CBM 1.7 [full] (PBEM)
 

If Corvus is fine with his Pretender there should be no need to restart, except for the password issue.

Re: Torches in the Night: MA, Newbies (10> mp games) only, CBM 1.7 [full] (PBEM)
 

If it's only a relatively minor difference in pretender design, then it wouldn't really be fair to restart the game for the benefit of those players who got a bad starting position. It's likely that someone else, or possibly even more players, would end up with bad starting positions.

Remember that in MP Dominions, having a weak starting position is not necessarily a bad thing. Most players are happy to ally with a weaker nation and assist them if they get into a fight, whereas nations that have an exceptionally strong start are asking to get dog-piled (this almost always happens to Ermor in LA games, and often to Mictlan also).