Lords of Civilization
 

Screenies of them, if you have no time to summon them http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

National Hinnom blood summon, lvl9, 177 blood slaves per one. Good thing for people bored with wishing for Seraph too http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Arakiel
Fear +5, SR&FR&PR 100%, Stealthy +20!!, BV +2, Fortune Teller 20
http://img256.imageshack.us/img256/4434/arakielrc2.jpg

Kokabel
Fear +5, SR&FR&PR 100%, Stealthy +20!!, BV +2, Fortune Teller 20


http://img206.imageshack.us/img206/5602/kokabeliu9.jpg

Semyaza
Fear +5, SR&FR&PR 100%, Stealthy +20!!, BV +2, Healer 100

http://img504.imageshack.us/img504/5818/semyazaxk1.jpg

Ezekiel
Fear +5, SR&FR&PR 100%, Stealthy +20!!, BV +2, Fortune Teller 20

http://img232.imageshack.us/img232/4420/ezekieloz6.jpg

Shamshiel
Fear +5, SR&FR&PR 100%, Stealthy +20!!, BV +2, Fortune Teller 20

http://img123.imageshack.us/img123/4...amshielgr8.jpg

Azazel
Fear +10, SR&FR&PR 100%, Stealthy +20!!, BV +2

http://img228.imageshack.us/img228/1575/azzazeldy1.jpg

Re: Lords of Civilization
 

Azazael learn how to make and use cosmetics ? lol !


the description talk about seduction ability but It dont see the seduction icon, so, seductor or not ?

Re: Lords of Civilization
 

They have "Corrupt enemy commander" order available.

I had funny test now. My seduction failed so normal assassination battle occured. Semyaza charmed indy commander and after that battle that commander attacked that province.

Re: Lords of Civilization
 

You should take a look at MA's Chayot and Ophanim.

Ophanim are size 5 tramplers with flying and map move 5, two misc slots only, Awe +5, immune shock/fire/poison, eth, 9 AP fire shield, lifeless, 21 base PROT, 14 base ATT/DEF, 20 base STR, Flame Strike attack. Sadly, lifelessness precludes regeneration, but they're sacred and priest 3, so they can bless themselves and still can get luck. Completely unequipped, mine's soloing everything in sight, now up to four XP stars and heroic agility for 20 ATT/DEF. Somewhere around 56ish base HP, too, can't quite tell the exact number because it's got a never-healing wound at the moment (the only affliction it has after countless battles) and 46 HP.

Chayot are utterly ridiculous. Almost unspeakably so. The first form is HP 55, ATT 15, DEF 14, PREC 15, STR 18, MR 17, PROT 9, 55 HP, flying and 6 map move, Awe +6, 100 FR/SR/PR, 10 AP fire shield. Astral 4, Priest 4. FULL SLOTS. No armor by default, fist is default weapon.

But that's not all.

Chayot also shift between forms when they're harmed (hit or killed, I can't say which). They can change between them at will outside of combat. Eagle-faced form changes Astral 4 to Air 4, HP 66, PREC 20, PROT 11, that's all that's different. Lion-faced form is Fire 4, HP 77, PREC 14, ATT 20, STR 20, PROT 13. Ox-faced form is Earth 4, HP 88, PREC 13, ATT 15, DEF 12, STR 21, PROT 19. Other than that, as far as I can see, they're the same. Full slots, hypothetical access to 4 in four different paths and Priest 4 in each form, non-lifeless so they can be given regen, utterly ridiculous movement and flying so they can plop themselves anywhere a la Vastness, and if all four forms have to be killed then they are basically unfathomably powerful.

The Ophanim are 59 pearls, Chayot are 222 and hopefully unwishable.

Re: Lords of Civilization
 

Just checked, you can wish for Chayots. Tetramorph, cool http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Re: Lords of Civilization
 

Well, they're...Conjuration 9, Astral 7, Fire 3 or 4, and cost 222 astral pearls, so they need to become unwishable immediately. Why the hell would anyone bother casting them normally? I mean, sure, you get the other conjuration stuff along the way, but the other path gives you alteration stuff along the way and the other various powers of Wish.

This has absolutely swayed me toward powerful nationals becoming unwishable. This is a fairly clear cut case.

Re: Lords of Civilization
 

And it seems that Chayot change form is bugged. They retreat of first form loses 75% HP. From what you say they should change into another when getting killed [they surely do not change when they lose some HP].

Re: Lords of Civilization
 

I think that Chayots should be unwishable as they are too expensive, but other nationals shouldn't. It just makes a nation way too powerful in the endgame if it has summons like Grigori which nobody else has access to.
So if Seraph is made unwishable, the races that have such endgame summons will have a terrific advantage which I don't think is correct. Somebody said recently (IIRC, it was thejeff) that late game should be balanced and every nation should have equal or nearly equal late-game abilities. Yes, it is boring, yes, the strategies are similar, but it is balancing and balance is a VERY important part of this game as well as any other one.

Re: Lords of Civilization
 

Also, I semi-rescind my notion of the case being absolutely clear-cut, because it appears that summoning a Chayot automatically comes with 4 non-commander Ophanim. At 59 gems a piece and able to solo ridiculous numbers of things each, the loss of two misc slots hurts a little but...uh...flying and map move 5, I'm pretty much just throwing them under the flying/6 Chayot and going wild. If nature blessing bypasses lifelessness, I think I have a new favorite strategy.

Edit: OH GOD WHAT. One of my Ophanim has the Awesome Presence heroic ability and now has Awe +10. Combat basically consists of entire armies refusing to hit him as he tramples through, and anyone who does bypass that has to deal with ethereality, 14 DEF, and then a metric ton of protection. And, for doing this, they get fire shielded.

Re: Lords of Civilization
 

Something I've noticed while playing around with the Grigori in debug mode was that Azazel still likes to play around with the mortals, i.e. he'll occasionally sire a nephilim.

While I'm here, let's compare what we have with my predictions:

� Azazel (death, maybe earth and blood)
� Kokabiel/Baraqel (astral, maybe death)
� Araqiel (earth, maybe astral and nature)
� Chazaqiel (air, maybe water)
� Shamsiel (fire, maybe astral)
� Samyaza (because even though Armaros/Penemue has a more distinctive niche, Samyaza is too big of a name to pass up).

Re: Lords of Civilization
 

I think everything should be wishable for, although it should come with some risks attached too it. For example, if you wish for "too much" (like great beings) the being might not like it and turn against you or you will attract horrors or whatnot.

Re: Lords of Civilization
 

I don't like risks in Wishes, because paying 100 gems for nothing is just crushing. Except for Doom Horrors, but that's because they're supposed to be unique.
Instead, I'd like to have variation. As I said before, having several different angels under one common keyword and Wish for any of them producing one, but not necessarily the one you wanted. It'd be like wishing for Doom Horrors without the attacks and eventual disappearance. You might get a Seraph, or a Chayot or an Ophanim or an Angel of Fury (or something that's a bit weaker but still SC-quality, I don't remember Fury's stats). That'd be enough to make angels different from other beings, and I like the idea of would-be gods paying for the service of human and non-human angels.

I really wish these threads didn't keep popping up, because I feel a bit silly writing essentially this same post again and again. I feel like an ad campaign, "I want my Wish for angels".

Re: Lords of Civilization
 

Fair enough. But what about this? The first time you wish it is risk free, the second it becomes a little more risky and so on. The reason: let's say that pestering the gods/forces with your wishes all the time pisses them off. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

An addition to the above could be that if you wait a couple of months you are granted a risk free wish again.

Re: Lords of Civilization
 

I think wishing for stuff worth more that 100 gems should be out.. or there should be a major wish (250 gems) which allows all summons and a minor for 100 wich doensn't allow to wish for the most expensive ones.

or if you wish for > 100 pearls worth the creature will always be hostile?

Re: Lords of Civilization
 

I like the Idea of generic with "angel", and put more gems in the Wish for better chance to have a Seraph or a Chayot

Re: Lords of Civilization
 

ow I agree with endo too http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif

yay endo

Re: Lords of Civilization
 

Oh, very very funky (fallen) angels.

Hm. "The First Sword"? "Dawn Armor"? Any interesting properties?

Re: Lords of Civilization
 

Dawn armor is pretty much very nice armor (I think prot 18, -1 def and 2 encumbrance or something. It is nice, anyways.)

Some of the first-age commanders get it, as well as dawn swords (available to sacreds, too) which are pretty nice magical weapons.

I have no idea what the first sword is.

Re: Lords of Civilization
 

The First Sword is Azazel's weapon. It's rather brutal.

Re: Lords of Civilization
 

Chayot is about the same as a seraph, but only one path at a time. THey don't have the blinding ability IIRC. Their last shape has 88 HP IIRC, and that should be the max they can take (but will survive several soul slays).

Re: Lords of Civilization
 

The First Sword

http://www.shrapnelcommunity.com/thr...10572-temp.jpg

Re: Lords of Civilization
 

Kristoffer O:

Should they rout if one form loses 75% HP? Because well, as SC they are pretty useless that way, no way to make use of multiple forms.

Re: Lords of Civilization
 

They are supposed to be accompanied by 4 Ophanim you know http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Re: Lords of Civilization
 

Except if you give them some other units to accompany them. Like the four Ophanim that are summoned in the Tetramorph.

EDIT: Illwinter-ninja'ed! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/eek.gif

Re: Lords of Civilization
 

I hate to be a negative nancy, but the word "taught" is misspelled in the Release Lords of Civilization spell description.

Re: Lords of Civilization
 

I 2nd Dedas on this. I think this is an elegant compromise between outright banning of some wishes and the all is legitimate for wish. No reason why this can't be coupled with the variation suggestion

Re: Lords of Civilization
 

Were the summon screenies taken in a magic 2-3 dominion? I noticed the sub-par 17 MR on em and was wondering if that was base.

Re: Lords of Civilization
 

Magic 3, I should have mentioned that, sorry.

Re: Lords of Civilization
 

The Grigori, summoned normally, are *more* expensive than demon lords, with the same research and casting requirements... but at least you don't have to worry about having them poached off you.

Except by wishes.

Maybe wishing for unique creatures should be banned (or produce only an imitation, which may be an imperfect copy in some way and doesn't take away the genuine article from whoever is employing it), and you can still wish for pretender chassis and other non-uniques?

But I have to admit I haven't been in any MP games long enough for wish to come into play, so maybe it's not really a big deal whether it eliminates national barriers and allows summoning chayots cheaper than their regular cost etc.

Re: Lords of Civilization
 

Those Grigori summons are, except for the first one, unwishable for by any other nation because you after wish for the name in the top centre and they are all called Grigori. So you should get which ever is listed first.

I am correct in this, arn't I or am I dreaming again? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Do all 3 nations have access to the lords of civilization or just the Hinnom? I have only had time to play the Hinnom so far.

Re: Lords of Civilization
 

Hmm... don't you get random one? And random from free ones?

Re: Lords of Civilization
 

AFAIK, no to both. If you wish for Erinye, you always get the first one, never the other two.

Also, should the one you wish for be in play already, I believe it will still appear (with any equipment given to it) and be hostile.

I am not 100% sure on all this, as its rare to do all this and dom3 is a HUGE game, but I think thats how it all works.

Re: Lords of Civilization
 

The facts are correct, but there's a small problem in the practicality of the idea.

Re: Lords of Civilization
 

You cannot wish for the Grigori due to a nice move from KO.
People trying to do so will be pleasantly surprise

Check out unit ID #1... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Re: Lords of Civilization
 

Ha Ha, just had a look, sly fox that K.O. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...es/biggrin.gif

Re: Lords of Civilization
 

how do you check unit ID's?

Re: Lords of Civilization
 

plz tell us more?
is there an always hostile doom horror called grigori there?

Re: Lords of Civilization
 

Shift+i when viewing the unit gives you monster number. If you don't have a unit you want to look at, you mod it into a recruitment list by monster number as a commander to see all of its abilities.

Re: Lords of Civilization
 

Better. But I don't want to spoil it for you... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Re: Lords of Civilization
 

I think you're asking how to view unit #1.

Quick way: during a battle, type Shift + "U". It will ask you "what monster?" and you type in a name or unit number. It will ask you how many, and then it will plop that many monsters of the type you ask into the battle replay (as non-commanders, so no magic paths).

The other way would be to play around with map files and mods, for instance to add unit #1 as a recuitable commander for some nation.

-Max

Re: Lords of Civilization
 

i love that idea, i would laugh really hard if one of my opponents wished for that in MP

Re: Lords of Civilization
 

10 greg crashed my comp when I was just about to finish ulms manticore pretender :S

Re: Lords of Civilization
 

I do think it's funny he misspelled my name.. I'm not so vain I'll personally ask for a change in the bug thread .. but still strange

it's A-E-Z-E-A-L

kind of a mess to spell it AZAZEL, not like I haven't posted enough.. he must have seen in a few times, and this is my thanks for teaching him to use cosmetics (really KO wasn't much use with a sword so I gave that up REAL quick)

I do like the picture though.. I don't usually do the thing with the 4 wings and that pose isn't REALLY me.. but I know how artists are.. alway going for drama in everything.

Re: Lords of Civilization
 

I shift-U'd a few things on my OSX and after a bit the battle froze. Had to force quit. Cool little feature in any case.

Re: Lords of Civilization
 

I checked out on the Grigori wish (Unit #1). Very cool http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

I'd say wishing for Grigori is off limits.

Re: Lords of Civilization
 

Wow, those Lords are insane! 5 map move?!?

Re: Lords of Civilization
 

One thing about this game I love is the occasional "up yours" attitude jokes by devs, like this wishable Grigori thing. Anyway, unless it's meant to be real gangsta, one "the" is mistyped as "tha" in the description.

Re: Lords of Civilization
 

I don't think it's a joke so much as an attempt by KO to prevent Wishing of that unit without requiring code changes from JK. Pure pragmatism.

-Max

Re: Lords of Civilization
 

I think it is worse idea to have uber powerful SCs only for few races.

Re: Lords of Civilization
 

Well if it was due to pure pragmatism the description wouldn't be like that. It can't be that I was the only one to find that one humorous.