3.06 New Man Spells...
 

... are all borked. I ran a quick game with MA Man to check them out, and here's the result:

MA Man Spell "Summon Black Dogs" is missing a description, and it summons 20 Baghests instead of Black Dogs, which is a big problem.

MA Man Spell "Summon Baghests" summons 9 Black Dogs instead of Baghests (spell description would be fine if it actually summonned Baghests, but it doesn't, so it's wrong). Not that big of a deal, compared to the above.

MA Man Cu Sith Summon is missing description... (spell description and effect is okay). Just missing flavoring text, no big deal.

So... 3 new spells... each one with it's own problem...

Judging from the fact that LA Man "Summon Black Dogs" is also missing a description, I'm guessing they also have the exact same problem (but I haven't tested it thouroughly to make sure, never got into the whole crossbow heavy infantry thing they got going).


Anyways... right now if you can get 2 death on man, spamming Summon Black Dogs is quite cheap. Of course how to get death on man is another matter all together (pray for neutrals I guess). A quick test run with a death pretender designed to site search and then spam summon black dogs (conjure 2) once researched proved rather evil really fast. Once you get 10 death gems per turn, you're just churning out Baghests... ouch. Looks like it's time for a hotpatch... or is this the vanheim nerf everyone was talking about? (lol)


On a side note... death summons with 100 nightvision for Man? Does this have something to do with the new Early Era Man nation we've been hearing rumors about?

Re: 3.06 New Man Spells...
 

LOL (or whatever you say on the net)...

That is pretty crazy!

Re: 3.06 New Man Spells...
 

If you have a pretender with death 2 or better, with construction 2 you can forge a skull staff, summon a D1 mage (revenant) with enchantment 3 (or 4 ?).

Just give him the staff, and you have a new death 2 mage (that can summon others revenants and create more staffs), freing your pretender for other tasks.

Of course, I didn't try yet Man since the patch, so I don't know what exact path levels are required for those summons.

Re: 3.06 New Man Spells...
 

Yeah, getting the death mages is easy, it's getting enough death gems to spam them that's hard... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif You need 10 death gems per casting... and while 2 Baghests for the price of 1 death gem is indeed a steal, it's still hard for Man to pull off.

The example I pointed to is just so that you can start casting 20 Baghests every turn in the first year (all you need is a little luck with site searching and level 2 conjuration.)



Edited to add stats (for those who haven't had the chance to check):

Summon Black Dogs = Conjuration 2, 2 death
Summon CU Sith = Conjuration 3, 2 nature
Summon Baghests = Conjuration 4, 2 death


If everything worked normally:

Summon Black Dogs should summon 20 black dogs for 10 death gems.
(Black Dogs: 14HP, size 2, 4 Prot, 13 Mor/MR, 2 Enc, 12 str, 12 atk, 10 def, 5 prec, 3/24 Mv, +20 Stealthy, Animal, 100 Darkvision, Bite attack)

Summon Cu Sith should summon 7 Cu Sith for 10 nature gems.
(Cu Sith: 26HP, size 3, 7 Prot, 14 Mor/MR, 2 Enc, 15 str, 13 atk, 12 def, 5 prec, 3/28 Mv, Sacred, +0 Stealthy, Forest Survival, Animal, Bite attack)

Summon Baghests should summon 9 Baghest for 13 death gems.
(Baghests: 28HP, size 3, 6 Prot, 14 Mor, 15 MR, 2 Enc, 16 str, 13 atk, 10 def, 5 pref, 3/26 Mv, Sacred, +20 Stealthy, Animal, 100 Darkvision, Venomous Bite attack)

Both the Baghests and the Black Dogs are suppose to be stronger in darkness according to the description, but I haven't tested if that's something other than the 100 Darkvision.


The big mix up here (as I posted at the top) is that instead of 13 death gems for 9 baghests, we're getting 10 death gems for 20 baghests, which is around 3 times more effective than it should be, and 2 level of conjuration earlier... Combine that with Man's bards/monks and you've got one nasty stealthy strike force (just be glad they don't come with better leadership).

Re: 3.06 New Man Spells...
 

Heh, thats a funny bug. You can fix that pretty easy with a mod tho. Just switch the research level of the two spells and... I guess just overlook the names :}

Re: 3.06 New Man Spells...
 

Like I said, hotpatch time :p

Re: 3.06 New Man Spells...
 

Bahahaha

Re: 3.06 New Man Spells...
 

We have had worse mistakes than this in previous patches and there has been no hotpatch fix. So I rate the chance close to zero. But it will probably be fixed by 3.08 or so... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/smirk.gif

Well it makes Man more powerful potentially, its not too bad when compared to some other nations already in the game.

Those spells are a prelude to the new EA Man nation due to be released in a future patch. Obviously it will have death magic.

Re: 3.06 New Man Spells...
 

Imho Man is already one of the best non bless nations in the game. About 12 nations desserve overpowered, bugged and unthematic national spells more than it. Except that good idea. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Re: 3.06 New Man Spells...
 

Deleted.

Re: 3.06 New Man Spells...
 

Im' rather surprised by the current cropping of "national" spells ...unusable by national mages. AFAIK Man has no death mages ?
We had already the problem with Abysia, Caelum and Shinuyama (to a lesser extent, as it has lot of spells, some usable)...

Re: 3.06 New Man Spells...
 

Yeah, what is the deal with Abyssian smoulderghosts? I mean, it's thematically pleasant, sortof, I guess, but for EA Abyssia, it's not real useful.

Yeah, I think I'm going to spend today enhancing nations with a "conceptual balance" mod of my own, starting with EA Abyssia.

Re: 3.06 New Man Spells...
 

I really like the smoulderghosts being there. After all, Abysia doesn't usually use death magic sothey won't usually summon smoulderghosts, but it makes sense that if they did have necromancers they wouldn't summon the usual undead, most of whom have chill auras. I think it's a nice bit of flavour for when people take death magic on the pretender or hire indep necromancers. After all, as long as Abysia's main national spells are ok, it doens't harm anyone for them to have extra ones that are colourful but not necessarily powerful.
Of course, I'm not sure how powerful the smoulderghosts actually are. Anyone know what 'spectral fire' actually does?

Re: 3.06 New Man Spells...
 

An Abysia pretender should have better to do that summoning Smoulderghosts... And Aby EA is pretty unbalanced, on the bad side http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/frown.gif
For me national summons should be above par spells for their nation, and usable by the national mages, else I don't see how the spell can be "national", huh...