Can I win a war with everyone? Advice?
 

What should I do when I'm at War with the entire world? I'm Niefelheim, strong income scales, E9N9 imprisoned cyclops.

I *was* the biggest and most powerful player by a considerable margin, but I chose the wrong ally, and generally mishandled the diplomatic situation.

However, my desperate ploy with an army of more-or-less-exclusively niefel jarls seems to be paying off, and I'm smashing the armies that were besieging my home fortresses, with surprisingly few losses.

Now, however, I'm in a poor state. I'm down to very few provinces, most of my bloodhunters are dead, as are the residents of one of my research gardens and my only source of earth magic outside of my God.

All five enemy players are continuing to pursue economic warfare against me - retaking provinces as soon as my armies vacate and I can barely pay the salary on my troops, let alone buy province defense.

I need some way to get my enemies to break ranks, just for a bit of breathing room, but they've shown no signso f that so far.

Advice?

Re: Can I win a war with everyone? Advice?
 

Bribes. Massive ones. Go to the weakest player and promise him a fortune in gems, gold, or items.

Re: Can I win a war with everyone? Advice?
 

From your description the situation looks hopeless. You can only hope for some diplomatic miracle, but I can't imagine why any of the opposing players would risk angering his allies no matter what you offer.

Generally, this situation (getting a big alliance going against you) comes sooner or later if you're winning. Good diplomacy can only delay it or make it less synchronized. Fighting defensive war in such circumstances is very difficult (unless you're undead Ermor or water nation). I was usually going for the opponent I could conquer quickest. Don't bother about provinces much, take his capital and/or other fortresses. The time is critical here - you're racing against them destroying your income. Then go for the next opponent etc... They will still hurt your economy pretty badly, but at some point you'll be able to start taking provinces back. It looks you could have managed it if you went for it right from the start of the war; now it seems unlikely to happen, but if the map is small you can still try. Besides, when the opponent loses most his army and crucial fortresses and faces total obliteration he might be more open towards peaceful talks http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Re: Can I win a war with everyone? Advice?
 

I conquered one of my opponents, but it didn't do much good - the remainder were still more than I could handle http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/frown.gif. At some point I decided that taking the last of his provinces wasn't worth it and marched my army back home.

I could've finished him off, I suppose, but I didn't think he'd be able to do much (as it turns out, I was wrong.)

Re: Can I win a war with everyone? Advice?
 

Whatever you do, don't let them know that their strategy is working...

Re: Can I win a war with everyone? Advice?
 

You're doomed! Muwahahaha!

(which opponent did you conquer by the way?)

Re: Can I win a war with everyone? Advice?
 

Vanheim.

Re: Can I win a war with everyone? Advice?
 

My advice would be to remain passive and trying to hide your strength - play (almost) defeated. Make the other players feel guilty when they smash the small groups of units you - in a (seemingly) hopeless attempt to save yourself - try to defend with. Let them see you as non threatful.
When you've managed the above you can finally start making peace with the strongest (because to them you are most insignificant) of your enemies. Try to offer them something non threatful (to them) in return for your loyalty. Examples would be information or letting them dictate how much area you can have to "live on". Let them think they have total control over your actions.
When that is settled they will focus their energies on the more threatful weaker allies. That will give you some breathing room, but don't make too big moves as the enemy you have come to terms with will start to suspect something.
Play two games, one for your "ally" and one in secrecy. Give him everything he asks for and at the same time build up your forces in a distant province (try to teleport somewhere) you know he will not look at or won't suspect.
At this time your "ally" will probably also be in war one or several other players - players you will help him attack - but at the same time you must make deals with them. Promise them to attack your "lord" from "within" when the time comes. In the meantime you and they attack each other just for show. Let your "lord" see that you are useful and loyal.
But always remember while doing these things: play and act naive, stupid and pathetic, don't show strengths such as resourcefulness, initiative and "cleverness".

When the wall of deceit is built and your "lord" is in war with several others due to you helping him expand his power, you and your allies strike - you strike hard and fast. But try to convince your allies that the operation will not work (you are too "weak") unless they take on his main forces (give them the coordinates you probably have due to being a loyal snake)". When their forces are being blunted you can grab the rich back country regions and finally start building up world domination again.

Remember, mercy can get you far but not against a merciless enemy. So don't try this with those or they will only laugh at you.

Good luck!

Re: Can I win a war with everyone? Advice?
 

Wow, that's creepy and dangerous (for everyone else) advice. Glad I can read this too!

To be honest I think that might well work if you were anyone but Niefelheim. But personally, I find the giants and jarls so terrifyingly impervious to almost anything that I'll not feel safe so long as they're around, even in small numbers. Seriously, even one jarl on the loose with a few trinkets can destroy any amount of PD. At least if other people feel like I do, I'm not sure if you can play Niefelheim (N9E9, at least) and have allies. I might just be on my own there though, I'm not sure.

Re: Can I win a war with everyone? Advice?
 

Indeed, that is the problem with being strong but not the strongest - you can't pretend to be a mouse when you are a buffalo and the hunt is on. You can, however, try to convince the hunters that you are better off alive and on their side (using your strength to their benefit) than dead. Though, to agree on this they must believe that they, whenever they want, can put you down (kill you), or they will see you as a threat. You have at least one good argument on your side to use with this kind of deal: "When you kill me you can't revive me to be able to benefit from my unique (keyword) strengths again". That will perhaps keep you alive for a while, if not you may at least get a turn or two when they think about what they might destroy that can't be replaced. But take heed, most of them will sooner or later come to the conclusion that it is safer to have you dead than to use you as some kind of unreliable weapon that can be pointed in any direction. But by then you've built up a secret strength somewhere so you can strike first. Always strike first. And by that I mean in the mind. Always be one step ahead. The enemy may think they've struck first but that was because you wanted them to.

Re: Can I win a war with everyone? Advice?
 

Make peace with the strongest?? Thats madness! If I was the strongest nation attacking you, I would be the least likely to sue for peace because I had the least to lose. I would drive to your capital and capture it for the gold and gems. No question in my mind.

Your best bet is to convince the weakest player to back off via threats and/or bribes. Then use that as a diplomatic lever to break up the alliance against you.

Re: Can I win a war with everyone? Advice?
 

Well, sometimes it can be very rewarding to take a more subtle approach to things. Aggressive diplomacy or force are not the only options for a would be God to choose from when trying to get out of a tight corner. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Re: Can I win a war with everyone? Advice?
 

Selling intelligence seems to be one possibility. Even temporary allies dismembering the same victim may be interested in the disposition of each others' forces and tactics, since sooner or later, they're going to fight each other. And if one can use anonymous attacks that 'suggest' other players (particularly from paths your nation is not considered strong in), it may be possible to disrupt things.

There's also scorched-earth -- making your lands not worth conquering, by going nuts with pillaging, uber taxation, and bane venom charms, but that's not to be done lightly.


Heh. Playing naive doesn't always work. Back in graduate school when playing odd games like 'Cults Across America' and 2-player 'Settlers of Catan', one of my most frequent opponents would reflexively treat me as the major threat, reject all offers at trade and treaties, and attempt to wipe me out ASAP. Might have had something to do with my predilection for rapidly commencing warfare (attempting to wipe out all enemy leaders on the very first turn... once almost managed a _Cults_ victory in setup phase, but after that he started paying more attention) and for nasty combos (ex -- in Catan, you have 2 VP and opponent already has 3 VP due to one extra province including ore and brick... buying additional province, playing Sir Lackland to get knight token, and playing Border Dispute to swap Sheep for opponent's extra Ore region. Heh. Best done with a Scout card so you can get Brick/Sheep, so you have a Sheep region to trade. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif )

It got to the point where in the 2-player card version of Catan, it was customary to be loaded with nasty action cards early on and to be very cautious about being the first player to the 3rd victory point, because the opponent might then get HIS 3rd victory point (cheapest = Sir Lackland, heh) and then open fire.

Re: Can I win a war with everyone? Advice?
 

He he, yeah. Know your enemy is step one of course. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Re: Can I win a war with everyone? Advice?
 

I'm kind of in the same situation as you are, except I'm using a cyclops with 10 earth, 10 water, 10 nature. It's not easy, is it?

My advice is to consolidate your strength. If you need to let a few outlying provinces go, then bite the bullet now before it's too late. A good strategy for alliances is not only to bribe your opponent, but threaten them.

Find the weakest and not only promise them lots of goodies if they join with you, promise them that if they don't, then you'll use all your remaining strength to take them down with you.

Re: Can I win a war with everyone? Advice?
 

Deleted.

Re: Can I win a war with everyone? Advice?
 

I thought that the giants were one of the best for taking a defensive stance. Their PD was excellent. Id do the guilt-trip thing that was recomended earlier but also shift to a "dam bursting" strategy. Build up and whoever reaches you first, do a dam burst taking out as many of their provinces as possible for as long as the army can keep going.

You might also crank the taxes on provinces to the max. You are likely to lose them anyway so drive the unrest to over 100 so the other guy cant build anything there. Grab the gold and take it home for the buildup project.

Re: Can I win a war with everyone? Advice?
 

Nielfelheim PD is absolute rubbish in Dom3.

Also Dr Praetorious and his foes are probably at the stage when no amount of PD can stop the invading armies, even with support.

In MP, if you face an alliance or multi front wars then your probably doomed. Players seem alot less inclined to talk/sign peace treaties, do deals from mid to late game. It comes down to a series of wars of annihilation. The real trick is becoming really powerful in secret and in a way or ways that are not obvious from the graphs.

Graphs off by the way, really, really help the best players to achieve victory, as no one knows your running away with the game until too late.

Re: Can I win a war with everyone? Advice?
 

Sorry, Gandalf, but Niefelheim's PD sucks.

I've consistently been beaten in my home province with 25 PD by barbarian hordes. The best way to defend Niefelheim is by combining a decent PD with a small standing army of Niefel giants and boulder-throwers. 1 Niefel Jarl, 4 Niefel troops guarding him, 15 boulder throwers, and a 30 PD is a very tight defense, but PD alone is terrible.

Re: Can I win a war with everyone? Advice?
 

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Re: Can I win a war with everyone? Advice?
 

A few call of the winds can take out most lower Neifelhiem PD. And if they invest enough to withstand that... then you just drop something tougher or use a conventional force to wipe out the PD investment.

Re: Can I win a war with everyone? Advice?
 

No, don't EVER guilt-trip someone in a multi-player game. If you try and play with someone's real-world emotions to win a virtual game you are seriously asking for trouble. MP dominions games last for months and people get really invested in them. I, and many other players, have learned the hard way that you must draw a very strict line b/w your in-game persona and your out-of-game self. Don't mix the two - EVER!!

Re: Can I win a war with everyone? Advice?
 

And what if you lose, what if you get fooled and get your legs pulled? It's still a game isn't it?
I say try to take control of your emotions. If you isn't prepared to lose by, say backstabbing inside, how can you ever manage real life?
Backstabbing someone real life, however, I think is cruel and morally wrong. Inside a game it is not, that is one of the reasons why we call it a game - because it isn't real life. We are only pretending to be someone or something. It is not you who get killed or eradicated, it is your nation or pretender God. I say don't mix those two together!

Re: Can I win a war with everyone? Advice?
 

Right, that is what I'm saying. Keep your emotions out of the game. Don't try politics with another player outside of the game in order to influence the results in game.

Re: Can I win a war with everyone? Advice?
 

No, I'm saying don't let your emotions run away with you inside a game if you can't control them.
Someone deceiving the pretender God you are playing is not breaking any rules (if you've not agreed on something else with your mates), it is a possibility given to us by the game in form of message system and spies. And it is not restricted unless we want to. However, if anyone insults YOU PERSONALLY it is a whole different matter. But that is by no extent a game rule being broken, that is an unwritten - and to some extent written - law of real life society.
So please remember: You ARE not your pretender God � you are only PLAYING/ACTING him.

Re: Can I win a war with everyone? Advice?
 

I think this is one of these discussions where everyone agrees with each other.

Re: Can I win a war with everyone? Advice?
 

Am I misunderstanding him? If that is the case I'm sorry.

Re: Can I win a war with everyone? Advice?
 

Thats something that everyone can agree with.
On the other hand, I also tend to hear it along with a comment such as "but I didnt trash the non-agreesion treaty and attack you in that last game. It was the god I was playing. That doesnt mean you shouldnt trust me in this game."

Since not everyone is roleplaying trust, that doesnt tend to work as well as "dont get mad at insults to your god". Some people will ALWAYS keep an agreement no matter who they are playing in the game. So that tends to ruin it for those that want to treat such things as a role-play item that doesnt carry over from one game to the next.

Gandalf Parker

Re: Can I win a war with everyone? Advice?
 

Deleted.

Re: Can I win a war with everyone? Advice?
 

If there are no victory conditions one can offer allied victory, even to several nations. The game is never going to reach the "x has ascended" point anyway.

Not fair? Maybe, but if you kill everyone who's not a part of the agreement, who's going to protest? The dead have no voice.