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Jotunheim:Utgard AAR
I thought I'd try my hand at providing an AAR, which may help folk who are even newer to the game than I am (I've been playing for about 5 weeks, give or take).
I suffered an embarrasing defeat in a MP Friday night where I learned that dual-bless pretenders, which work nicely in SP games, will kill you in MP due to the bad scales you have to take to get them. Zen was gracious and patient enough to explain to me in detail (using lots of comparisons and a Socratic-style method of asking probing questions) just why this is so, but that's a topic for another thread. He was thoughtful enough to guide me through the design of a new pretender, that should have a far better chance of putting up a credible showing in my next MP game. Not having anything better to do until such a time, and being possessed of a highly-developed sense of curiosity (that's a polite euphemism for 'impatience'), I decided to begin a SP game to 'test' this pretender, and what is for me a radically different approach to playing Dom 2. More on why as we get into the game itself. Without further ado, we begin: I have loaded the mods for Improved Light Cav (I won't be using any, but this should give the AIs and the Indies a minor boost towards making my life more challenging), Mighty Militia which converts those arguably useless militia into religious fanatics, which are more useful, and can be quite tough to face (as we will soon discover), the Temporary Caelum Cold Fix which I hope is self-explanatory, and Lastly, the excellent Ashikaga Shogunate mod which replaces T'ien Ch'i with what I consider a much more challenging Japanese nation (the Samurai are tough). The next step is to begin the creation of the pretender. Following the discussion I had with Zen, I select the nation of Jotunheim (one of the 3 nations I'm most familar with) and I select the Wyrm (one of my Favorites) as my pretender. Saber Cherry's Melee Power Rankings Chart ranks it as the 'best' combat pretender (a score of 99.1%), and for good reason as I've come to learn on my own over the past few weeks. The Wyrm has the following stats: </font>
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Slots are pretty much his only weakness, especially as a SC. Since his attacks will be biting, the loss of the 2 hands isn't so bad. Not being able to buff him with armor or boots is a minus, but not as bad as one might initially think, once he's properly tricked-out with the right spells. Still, I'll miss those Boots of Quickness I'm rather fond of. I name the critter 'Jorgun' as I'm in a hurry, can't think of anything better, and desire to get on with twiddling scales and such. <center><font size=1>continued next post</font></center> [ April 18, 2004, 02:24: Message edited by: Arryn ] |
Re: Jotunheim:Utgard AAR
Having thus selected the form in which our God will manifest in the earthly realm, I proceed to select my avatar's abilities and influences (scales). For Magic, I give the God Astral-4. Zen had recommended Astral-5, but I decide to spend the difference on scales. Astral is chosen because we will be using some no-gem-cost spells from the Alteration and Enchantment schools that are quick to research (levels 1-3 in each) to provide all the buffs that our SC pretender will need in the early game. Later on, Astral will allow us to quickly move across the map via Teleport or Gateway, or to summon some of my favorite Arch Angels and/or Harbingers (which I find useful in SP, but not likely so in MP).
For scales I select: </font>
I then select the Utgard theme (25 points) because I want the Nornas (which give a 15% chance, each, to avoiding bad events in the province they are in) and I prefer Seithkonas to the (cheaper, but less flexible) Iron Woods theme's Vaetti Hags. The Seithkonas will be my main researchers, and also my primary battlefield support in the early to mid game. I select the 80 point castle because we will need all the resources we can get, and the admin value of 40 will do just that. With the remaining points we have, I increase Dominion as much as I can (to 5). Having completed the design of my realm and godly attributes, I assign a password to my pretender (though the game will be SP, I intend to use the same god in a MP game in the near future), and move on to selecting the game map and my AI opponents. <center><font size=1>continued next post</font></center> |
Re: Jotunheim:Utgard AAR
For opponents, I enable all AIs except Ermor (other AIs don't handle Ermor well) and C'tis (which I dislike because they always seem to be the first to cast a global enchantment, usually Burden of Time, and I'd rather not gear my whole effort towards countering just them), and I set them all to 'difficult'.
I then select the basic Orania map, which is the map I'm most familar with. Orania is large enough to accomodate all the AIs I wish to use, has no fixed starting positions (unlike the world map, AFAIK), and wraps in both vertical and horizontal directions. The only change I make to the basic game settings before I begin play is to set the independent strength to 5. The default strength of 3 is just too easy to overcome. If you are a new player, I advise that you leave it at 3 until you are more familiar with whatever nation you are playing. Finally, I must select a name for the game I have created, and I do so. At long Last (well, it seems that way after all this writing) I am ready to take up my role in The Ascension Wars of Orania. I select Play from the Dominions main menu and I am greeted by the words: "In the beginning, there was Chaos" and "Now the wheel has turned once again." and I cannot help but think about the chaos which is about to be unleashed upon the world as I strive to bring order and harmony to the multitudes of heathens and followers alike. I must eradicate the plethora of false gods which lead astray the creatures of my world, and do so as quickly as possible, so that my Dominion may encompass all lands and seas. <center><font size=1>continued next post</font></center> |
Re: Jotunheim:Utgard AAR
very nice read, looking forward to updates
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Re: Jotunheim:Utgard AAR
<center><font size=1>Turn #1, Spring year 1
Forces gather, plans are laid.</font></center> Having pondered my task, I consider the modest forces that have gathered for the start of this momentous mission. I have: </font>
My realm begins with: </font>
Jorgun takes direct control of the axemen from Bove, as Jorgun's morale of 30 means he will likely be the Last to break in a battle. It is always rude if your commander routs while the troops are still fighting, and I intend to prevent that from happening to me. I set my avatar to research within the school of 'Alteration', my short-term goal being the acquisition of the knowledge of how to cast the spells of Personal Luck, Barkskin, and Eagle Eyes. Having set my avatar to his duties, it remains that I explore the provinces to my north to see what forces I shall face when I begin my campaign. To this end, I command Bdvar to make his way, stealthily, into the mountainous province of Iron Range (#79), which runs like a spine down the middle of what I am already thinking of as my peninsula. All orders having been issued, I await the results. The march of time moves on to a new month. <center><font size=1>to be continued ...</font></center> [ February 08, 2004, 07:46: Message edited by: Arryn ] |
Re: Jotunheim:Utgard AAR
I'd like to point out that, from personal experience, the most important value of a long-run SC will be his encumberance and slottage. The Wyrm, while very powerful in a short engagement, which is the melee combat rankings are based on, with his encumberance of 4, will prove to be somewhat limp-wristed in an all out battle, particularly if you can't break the opposing army through Cause Fear. Many, many times I've had an SC fall not through loss of hitpoints, but because he passed out like a big sissy and lay there like a useless sack of potatoes until the opponent beat him to death. This has led to my conclusion that a quality SC should have a low or no encumberance. With an encumberance of 4, and 2 bites per round, your Wyrm's maximum kill potential is about 50 enemies before he passes out into the dirt. This will probably be less, because you'll lose fatigue from pre-battle buffing, and because your enemies are surely not likely to be so obliging as to always be hit, always die in the first hit, and always be gathered together in a single square that you can chomp on them with both of your bites. Not to mention that poison is time-release damage, which will likely lead to a lot of cases of "beating a dead horse", as your Wyrm chomps an opponent who's already doomed anyway.
It should also be noted that another disregarded factor in the melee ranking of a combat pretender chassis is the spells you actually buff yourself with, and the use of items. Your Wyrm's item selection is going to be rather limited. I'm guessing you plan on a Horror Helmet or two, and the Amulet of Resilience? Let me know how it goes, and if my prediction of the Wyrm passing out into the dirt from his encumberance rating comes true. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif |
Re: Jotunheim:Utgard AAR
I have previously played a Wyrm in a Jotun SP game, and in a R'lyeh SP game. In neither one have I ever had my pretender pass out. The enemy always routs before that can happen.
This game I'm writing the AAR for is already on turn 18. I have a lot more writing to do. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif Stay tuned ... |
Re: Jotunheim:Utgard AAR
If you look at the theme that she is playing Norfleet, it has easy access to Relief. Early in the game the Wyrm may have it's limitations (only being able to instagrab certain provinces alone, including water) but late game it is not affected by the common "encumberance" issue, simply because the nation's mages support it. The nation and the pretender can both teleport so there is no reason that when the Wyrm is running around, he doesn't have a chance of a Relief or two.
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Re: Jotunheim:Utgard AAR
Relief is nice, although those hanging mages do have a tendency to get killed when your pretender becomes distracted by the oncoming hordes and they swarm past him....and kill your squishy mages, leaving your poor pretender hanging out there alone to pass out. Plus there's no guarantee that your mages will continue to cast relief with sufficient regularity, once your script runs out.
Then again, maybe I'm just used to playing on a high independent strength, where the passing out problem early on becomes much more severe, and the late game is filled with that many more unbreakable units that won't flee in terror when you scream "Boo!" at them, and have to all be killed the old-fashioned way. [ February 08, 2004, 08:05: Message edited by: Norfleet ] |
Re: Jotunheim:Utgard AAR
Relief effects everyone on the battlefield regardless of where the mage is. You can put mage(s) in the very back corner who are casting Relief. You can also have them have Returning on them so you don't waste them if you have a sudden fear (from say a Howl, though more than likely you will be doing the howling) of getting attacked at the back.
A Wyrm doesn't quite accumulate fatigue as fast as something that tramples. I doubt you'd need more than 1 or possibly even 2 Reliefs to keep him in good working order. Unless you are trying to say that the Wyrm is supposed to be a standalone combatant, which he can be, if you pick different paths than Astral. [ February 08, 2004, 08:04: Message edited by: Zen ] |
Re: Jotunheim:Utgard AAR
This is my first astral-only Wyrm. My previous ones have been W9S4, typically. I'm trying the good scales and weaker pretender for a change. So far, I like what I've seen.
As far as mages getting munched on at the rear, besides Returning, there's also Body Ethereal and Astral Shield. Not much gets past that combo. And you can stack a lot more defenses on a mage than that. Not to mention that unlike the Wyrm, mages have hands, feet, and body slots. |
Re: Jotunheim:Utgard AAR
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Astral Shield, as you know, causes people attacking you to pass out. This is potentially quite handy, but can backfire horribly in one way: Paralyzation, as you know, is the bane of SCs. When an SC is standing out there alone, he tends to get slammed with everything, and sooner or later, he's going to fail a paralyzation MR save, even with all the best antimagic gear and spells you can stick on him. He will then spend the rest of the battle as a useless, immobile lump. All is not yet lost, though, as you may have done any number of things, like slap a Charcoal Shield or a Ritual of Returning on him, and he may very well be able to continue thumping people through passive shielding, perhaps even the accursed Astral Shield.... Until that Astral Shield causes one of your opponents to pass out. Assuming nobody is successful in popping your SC, which I've found may often happen, eventually, everyone starts routing. Obviously, your SC is unable to rout, being that he's paralyzed or passed out cold. This means the "is routing" light will flash several rounds until the OTHER side starts their "is routing". Now, ordinarily, this would hand you the victory and leave your SC alive: However, your opponent, too, has become paralyzed or permastunned: So he can't finish routing either, and eventually the battle just goes back and forth as both sides continue to be "are routing". Eventually, a safeguard built into the game, apparently to prevent infinite loops like this, kills everyone. The opponent loses a few units of minimal value. You lose your SC. Besides, paralyzed/stunned opponents can't hurl themselves to a fiery doom on fire shields. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif You're bring along astral mages as your baggage train for your SC, presumably if you're teleporting him....which is almost a must, as, at least for me, I use SCs primarily as fast-response forces to an AI incursion: With normal moving forces, you'd be chasing him around forever and never catching him, or having to second-guess his next move. Quite the pain. With an SC teleport drop, you can land on him and wipe him out. Unfortunately, sooner or later, one of your Astral mages is going to likely pop off a paralyze, when your SC becomes paralyzed..... And so it begins. |
Re: Jotunheim:Utgard AAR
Not really, it can work in that fashion if you don't plan on it. I wouldn't teleport a SC into the midst of 300+ troops without a force to back it regardless of my intent. Though that is my playstyle. On the other hand, if a mage is scripted to cast Raise Skeletons it will more than likely keep casting it. Thus providing you with more than enough hands to kill those paralzyed creatures.
Of course; this is supposed to be an AAR, not Norfleet's reasons why he has had issues with Astral Shield and/or Wyrms because of his playstyle. |
Re: Jotunheim:Utgard AAR
Agreed. Let's see how Arryn does with it.
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Re: Jotunheim:Utgard AAR
<center><font size=1>Turn #2, Late Spring of year 1
Forces continue to gather.</font></center> Travellers from afar bring word that an Ulmish Commander has been appointed as the false prophet of the pretender Ninhursag, while word also reaches us that another false prophet, a Storm General of Caelum, speaks for the pretender Gina. I take no real note of this for now, as my attention is focused on the lands around me. The doom of those heathens is fated. My faithful Jotun Scout, Bdvar, has successfully sent back a report that the mountain province of Iron Range is occupied by pagans defended by what he estimates to be roughly a score of light cavalry. I make a note to myself to try to confirm this figure over the coming weeks, as mortals often exaggerate, or worse, do not grasp all that there is to see. I do not let this affect my, limited, trust in Bdvar, and I order him onwards to reconnoiter the province of Black Alps (#86) at the base of my peninsula. Black Alps is the source of the river that feeds the fertile farmlands of Ancyrna (#90) northwest of the mountain chain in the Jotun Peninsula, and should be one of the early targets to be brought into my realm. Peasants also bring me reports that the neighboring plains of Gwyrth (#76) to the northeast are said to be defended by a mixed force of two-score pagan fanatics and archers, while the coastal plains of Zenthra (#72) to my west harbor thirty light and heavy footsoldiers. I make note of this as well and resolve to gather more information. I am pleased that the Jotun Gode Grymis has heeded my call, bringing with him a pair of Huskarl bodyguards and a spearman to bolster my small, but potent, force of Jotun giants. I reward Grymis by allowing him to contest with Bove, the Herse, to become my prophet. I will pretend to consider the matter carefully over the next few weeks while I continue to research the magics of 'Alteration', but in truth I favor Grymis and have already decided. I have other plans for Bove. My realm has: </font>
There is nothing further to be done, but await the results of my studies and explorations. <center><font size=1>to be continued ...</font></center> |
Re: Jotunheim:Utgard AAR
Really like your writing style for this aar!
My only consern is that you might get Carpal Tunnel Syndrome if you keep this length for every turn http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif |
Re: Jotunheim:Utgard AAR
<center><font size=1>Turn #3, Early Summer of year 1
The War against Pythium begins.</font></center> Travellers from afar bring word that a Pythium Snake Lord has been appointed as the false prophet of the pretender Kanuka, while word also reaches us that a Vanjarl speaks for the pretender Antu. The knowledge that the kin of my beloved Jotuns have been led astray makes me seethe, but I, as yet, do not know where they reside so bringing them back into the fold must wait. My own heralds have gone forth to proclaim the elevation of Grymis, who shall no longer be known as "the Gode" and shall henceforth be known as "the Prophet". My Dominion has spread from my castle out as far as the borders of the snake-pretender's land, throughout the entire Jotun Peninsula, and even into the Wailwind waters to the south. Bdvar, my Jotun Scout, observes quietly as the pagans of the Black Alps, numbering 3 commanders, 11 crossbowmen, 9 light and 4 heavy footmen repulse an attack by Pythium forces comprised of a sole centurion, a standard-bearer, 15 velites, and 9 hastatus. The morale of the centurion breaks after Pythium's forces suffer losses of half of the velites, and the snake-worshippers flee the field of battle under continued fire from the pagan's crossbows. The pagan's losses of 4 light and 1 heavy infantry will only make easier my conquest of them of few months hence. I am pleased at this, and with the apparent weakness of Pythium's attack, though the concerns I had about my position on this peninsula are confirmed. I shall have to be careful, though every day that delays my rightful ascension, and the banishment of all false gods, pains me. Bdvar is also able to report to me that Pythium's citadel (#96) lies just to the northeast of Black Alps, while the lush delta of Saeborea (#65), at the mouth of two rivers, lies directly south of Pythium and southeast of the Alps. The Norna Lit, possessing the skills of second circle astral, third circle death, and first circle nature mage, has accepted the generous offerings of my people and come forth to lend her aid. She takes over my studies in the magics of 'Alteration' as I muster the giants from their barracks and prepare them to march! My realm has: </font>
My army of thirteen giants, led by my avatar Jorgun, plus the Prophet Grymis and Herse Bove, set out for the plains of Gwyrth, and destiny. <center><font size=1>to be continued ...</font></center> |
Re: Jotunheim:Utgard AAR
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Re: Jotunheim:Utgard AAR
Oh.. Im sorry to hear that. I hope you didnt find my comment offencive then, it was in no way intended to be.
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Re: Jotunheim:Utgard AAR
Nice! A new AAR. Very detailed and well written.
Show those heretics from Pythium what an attack should look like. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif |
Re: Jotunheim:Utgard AAR
<center><font size=1>Turn #4, Summer of year 1
The first taste of victory.</font></center> Travellers from afar bring word that a High Inquisitor of Marignon has been appointed as the false prophet of the pretender Ita Kama, while word also reaches us that a Priest King of Mictlan speaks for the pretender Gugalanna. My Dominion has spread into the lands of Ancyrna, while the strength of the faith has risen to 30% in Iron Range, and 20% in Gwyrth, Black Alps, and the Wailwind Waters. Some lay priests in the temple of Jotunheim are found to be selling favors, but I overlook the practice, for now, despite the heresy and weakening of the faith within the city, as my attention is focused on the conflict with Pythium, and the practicalities of extra coin are somewhat useful. Bdvar continues to observe quietly as Pythium once again assaults the pagans of the Black Alps. This time, Pythium's force contains their false prophet Philomelium, the mercenary illusionist Obscuro, a centurion, a standard-bearer, 16 velites, and 12 hastatus. The pagans can only field their 3 commanders and 11 crossbowmen, as all their footmen were either killed or fled the battle in the previous month. The presence of the false prophet dramatically tips the battle in Pythium's favor, as his Sermons of Courage prevent a repeat of the Last battle's ignominious defeat. Pythium takes over the province with a loss of only 4 velites. I am not pleased by this, but it does not come as a surprise. I feel that Bdvar can be more useful moving on, so I have the scout make his way towards Saeborea to the southeast. As I had suspected, the reports of the forces in Gwyrth were not entirely accurate. In this instance overestimating the enemy by 17%. I am faced with only a half-dozen archers, five heavy and 23 light infantry, led by three commanders and a priest. The smaller than expected number of archers delights me. My stalwart giants, along with my avatar, make short work of the lightly armored footmen, shrugging off the two arrows that find their marks throughout the battle. The heavy footmen have no stomach for the carnage and rout before ever being engaged, as do the crossbowmen and leaders once the light troops are no more. Most satisfactory. Bove distinguishes himself in the battle, making 4 kills and acquiring 8 trophies, and is bestowed heroic toughness (+3 to protection, raising it to 20!). My avatar claims 6 kills and 7 trophies. The plains of Gwyrth are mine! I note that there are some 13 malcontents, angry at losing loved ones in the battle and stirring up dissent, but I expect that with the passage of time this will abate on its own. As I cannot spare my giants to round up these misguided souls, I leave them be. My troops are blooded and have acquitted themselves beyond my expectations, suffering no losses, and I am justifiably proud of them. But the celebration is brief, as the false prophet of Pythium and his force are just a short distance away in the Black Alps, and preparations must be made. The Seithkona Fulla (possessing the skills of first circle astral, first circle death, and first circle nature mage) comes to the castle to aid the Norna Lit. The first rank in the school of 'Alteration' is mastered and studies continue towards the next rank in that field. My avatar can thus now cast Personal Luck, which I script him to prepare before he enters battle. My realm has: </font>
My victorious army, in high spirits, sets out for the Black Alps, and a reckoning with the false prophet of Pythium. <center><font size=1>to be continued ...</font></center> <font size=1>EDIT: Gwyrth unrest</font> [ February 11, 2004, 14:29: Message edited by: Arryn ] |
Re: Jotunheim:Utgard AAR
BTW, I'd like to interject a note of caution here. After Zen explained to me the unfortunate probabilities that having only Astral-4 risks when being confronted by Mind Duels, I must say that my decision to lower Astral to 4 in order to take an additional magic scale (to L2) is not what I would have done had I to do it over. I will likely get away with it in SP (and I have in the past), but against a human opponent I strongly advise that you take Astral-5 (or higher) if you try to build a pretender similar to my Wyrm. Don't say you weren't warned! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...s/rolleyes.gif
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Re: Jotunheim:Utgard AAR
Nice post so far. I'm looking forward to reading future turn reports.
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Re: Jotunheim:Utgard AAR
Have you considered going for cold 3 for the extra points? this wont hurt you as much as it will hurt all the others bar the cold 3 nations. Besides the temperatures swing a bit, so you might end up actually getting your prefered cold 2 more often http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif
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Re: Jotunheim:Utgard AAR
I must say I also really enjoy this AAR. While others may be a little more poetic, the direct applicability of all of the information provided is very useful to new players like me.
While I think of myself as a rather good strategy player, I have never thought of giving a SC pretender magic skills based on the spells it allowed him to cast in combat. You have certainly broadened my mind in that regard, and I would like to thank both you and Zen for doing so. Bayushi Tasogare |
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You asked a great question, which I'm sure a lot of beginners are curious to know about, and is a point that is subject to debate. If I took the Cold 3, then the points gained might be spent on: </font>
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Re: Jotunheim:Utgard AAR
<center><font size=1>Turn #5, Late Summer of year 1
A second war?</font></center> Travellers from afar bring word that an aptly-named Traitor Prince has become the false prophet of the R'lyeh pretender Hatheg Klah, while a herald brings us the stunning diplomatic note that Caelum has gone to war against us. I am more amused by this than concerned, since the Caelumite herald must have travelled far indeed, through many hostile lands, in order to deliver such a pointless declaration. I decline to feast on him, despite his impudence, since I expect that some barbarian along his route back will be more in need of the meat than I. Perhaps I am too merciful and kind-hearted? Bdvar reports from Saeborea, whose land alone produces a revenue equal to 40% of that of my entire realm, of some fifty heavily-armed horsemen and soldiers, still loyal to the old pagan ways. He also reports that the farmlands of Helmshire, upriver to the southeast, would also add another 30% to my revenues, and my dominion has already spread into this land. My anger grows at Pythium, for threatening my northern flank should I prematurely extend myself to gather these lands. The delay is like a salted wound to me. Pythium must be swept away! For now, I decide to keep my scout in Saeborea, to refine his estimates of the opposition there, and to observe the capital of Pythium directly to the north. My army seizes the Black Alps -- unopposed. The Pythium prophet has moved on, behind me, to capture the Iron Range, and to threaten my capital just to the southwest. Intolerable! I am only slightly mollified in that there appear to be only a half-score malcontents in the Alps, which I attribute to the increased faith here, now risen to a level of 30%, as the pagans and heathens behold the fearsome presence of my avatar in their midst. It also appears that my judgement of the unrest in Gwyrth is correct, as one of the malcontents there has adjusted to the changed situation. I expect that more will follow this wiser course, and thus not provoke me into taking action. While I had been hoping that Pythium would stand its ground in the Alps, I was not truly expecting them to. Their conquest of the pagans in the Range will only make my task of consolidating control over the Jotun Peninsula easier -- once I have disposed of the Pythium prophet and his force. To this end, I make plans and give orders. The Seithkona Edda joins my coven of magical researchers, and they shall soon master the second rank in the school of 'Alteration'. My realm has: </font>
I send the Herse Bove across the plains of Gwyrth and back to the capital to gather the reinforcements that will be waiting there. My avatar, along with my prophet and my army, eager for battle, march along the ridgelines southwest into the Iron Range, on the hunt for a certain snake prophet. <center><font size=1>to be continued ...</font></center> [ February 11, 2004, 14:28: Message edited by: Arryn ] |
Re: Jotunheim:Utgard AAR
<center><font size=1>Turn #6, Early Fall of year 1
Reality masters illusion.</font></center> Travellers from afar bring word that a Coral Queen has been appointed as the false prophet of the Atlantian pretender Dinodike <font size=1 color=blue>[Honest, that's what it's named. A butch, leather-clad reptile goddess of the sea?]</font>, while word also reaches us that a Strategos of Arcoscephale speaks for the pretender Falco. Bdvar reports that the faithful in Saeborea have risen to 20% of the populace, while 30% of the tritons in the Wailwind Waters have been converted. He has revised his report of the strength of the pagans in Saeborea downwards to 40 (from 50). I decide to leave him in place for a third month, to confirm this latest report. A two-score strong force of gladiators, velites, and hastatus from the Pythium capital marches on the heels of my departing army and seizes the now-vacant and undefended Black Alps. They have taken the bait I left for them. I am pleased. Pythium is acting within my plan, since it will be easier to crush their army away from the walls of their citadel. My avatar, prophet, and army do battle with the snake-worshippers in the Iron Range. Facing me is the mercenary illusionist Obscuro, a standard-bearer, 8 velites, and 12 hastatus. The Pythium prophet, along with a centurion and 8 velites have slipped around my army and joined the troops in the Alps. My quarry has eluded me, for now, but his days are surely numbered, and they are not many. I content myself with the extermination of the remaining small force, including the mage-for-hire Obscuro. My giants once again do me proud, taking no losses from this weak Pythium force, and my avatar gains another 2 kills and 6 more trophies, the experience thus gained increasing my prowess in combat. Unrest remains stable in Gwyrth at a dozen malcontents. I may need to deal with them after all, though not now. Perhaps they are affected by the battles in the adjacent lands to their west and north? The people of the Iron Range rejoice at their liberation and the faithful increase to 40% of the total population. A dozen and a half malcontents cause dissent in the newly-freed land, but the populace is sparse in the mountains and I care little about the effect of such few rebels. The blessings of peace will surely silence their outcries in a matter of months. I make plans to clear the Jotun Peninsula of the remaining snake presence, and give orders. The Seithkona Urd joins my coven of magical researchers, who have now mastered the second rank in the school of 'Alteration', and they continue their studies with the goal of achieving the third rank. My realm has: </font>
I command that another Seithkona be found to add to the growing coven, and 3 more Jotun Spearman be readied, for the eventual siege of the Pythium citadel. I also command that a militia leader be placed in the Iron Range, and another in Gwyrth, along with 5 more defenders in the latter plains, the second-largest souce of income to my realm at this time. For this, I empty the treasury completely. I send Bove, along with eight Jotun spearmen, back to the plains of Gwyrth to bolster the newly-formed militia there, in case Pythium attempts to flank me again. My avatar, along with my prophet and my army, having had a taste of the snakes and found them to their liking, march back towards the Black Alps in search of more substantial fare. <center><font size=1>to be continued ...</font></center> [ February 11, 2004, 14:27: Message edited by: Arryn ] |
Re: Jotunheim:Utgard AAR
<center><font size=1>Turn #7, Fall of year 1
The punishment of heretics.</font></center> Travellers from afar bring word that a Taisho Daimyo of Ashikaga has been appointed as the false prophet of Arriod. It is interesting that they should choose a warrior, rather than a priest, to be their so-called prophet, though it is in keeping with their highly martial disposition. Bdvar reports that the faithful in Saeborea have declined to just 10% of the populace. How fickle these mortals are, that they should forget me so soon. I decide to leave the scout in place for a fourth consecutive month. <font size=1>[This is a minor mistake, in retrospect.]</font> My avatar, prophet, and main army arrive in the Black Alps only to find a pathetic Pythium defense of a commander, 6 velites, and 4 hastatus. The battle is brief, and disappointing, as the commander, 3 of the hastatus, and a single velite manage to flee to the (relative) safety of Pythium to the northeast. My avatar manages to gain 4 more trophies, but not a single kill. Meanwhile, Bove, his 8 Jotun spearmen, along with another Jotun herse and his 6 Jotun militia, are attacked in Gwyrth by the opportunistic Pythium snake prophet, as I had anticipated he might do based on his earlier tactics. The false prophet commands a force of 16 gladiators, 7 velites, and 2 hastatus. The heretic charges Bove's spearmen, alone, and far ahead of the rest of his troops. Commendable bravery, but utterly foolish. Naturally, he is the first to die, and very quickly, which of course is bad news to the now-leaderless Pythium soldiers. They linger on for a few more exchanges of swordblows, but their heart is simply not in it and the giants slaughter them with ease, while losing not a one of their own. Bove earns 2 more kills and 8 trophies, his experience leading to an improvement of his fighting prowess. The brief occupation of the Black Alps has seen a culling of the faithful there down to 20%, while those that are malcontent have risen only by one (to thirteen) since I was Last here. It seems that in general the people, wisely, prefer my rule over that of the snakes. In the Iron Range, celebration of my triumph is widespread and the faithful rise to a full half of the population, with one of the malcontents becoming converted. The securing of the lands to the west and north have also silenced one of the critics in Gwyrth, though I cannot discount the possibility it may have simply been due to gratitude over my giants keeping the marauding snake-lovers away from his home. Either way, it is a step in the proper direction. The number of faithful in the as-yet-independent coastal region of Zenthra, directly to the west of my capital, rises to 30%. Having achieved my objective of clearing the Jotun Peninsula of snake-worshipers, I make plans to take the battle directly to the Pythium citadel, where the pretender Kanuka, a Frost Father, awaits with an estimated two-score gladiators, and without a doubt various summoned creatures and other magical defenders. The Seithkona Erna is the fourth to join my coven of magical researchers, who will soon master the third rank in the school of 'Alteration'. I therefor instruct them to begin studies in a second area, that of 'Enchantment', as soon as they achieve my goal in 'Alteration'. My realm has: </font>
I command that another Seithkona be found for the coven, and 2 more Jotun Spearman be readied, for the upcoming siege of the Pythium citadel. For this, I allot 150 coins. I elect not to bolster province defenses at this time, as I may be able to better utilize the extra coins in recruiting an additional Jotun next month. I have Bove and his eight Jotun spearmen move up to occupy the Alps, while my avatar, prophet, and main force move into the heart of Pythium. <center><font size=1>to be continued ...</font></center> [ February 11, 2004, 14:26: Message edited by: Arryn ] |
Re: Jotunheim:Utgard AAR
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Natural temperature changes should encourage Jotunheim to take cold +3 IMHO. Cheers |
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Did you consider air 4 (or 3) instead of astral? If you bring a Seithkona with your Wyrm, you can cast Luck from the start anyway and easily reach Body ethereal.
You would be lacking Astral Shield (which is nice) and Astral Weapon. OTOH, you would gain Mirror Image and Mist Form, have Cloud Trapezee for strategic movement, not having to worry about Mind Duel and add a magic field to your nation (which would then only be lacking earth and fire magic). What do you think? Edit: Because I can only count to seven http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...s/rolleyes.gif [ February 09, 2004, 15:03: Message edited by: Patrik ] |
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The point, once again, of this strategy is what spells the SC needs to cast to make itself a very tough and effective combatant. So you really have to look at the spells that have an AoE of Caster. Other spells can be relegated to supporting mages. Thanks for posing the question(s)! |
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<center><font size=1>Turn #8, Late Fall of year 1
The noose descends upon the head of the snake.</font></center> Travellers from afar bring word that an Anathemant Warlock of the demon nation of Abyssia has been appointed as the false prophet of Theag. I am puzzled that even the most foolish of mortals would listen to, much less heed, the lies of those that consort with creatures from the nether realms. My avatar Jorgun, prophet Grymis, and 13 Jotuns engage the defenders of Pythium as my force approaches their citadel. Facing me are 2 centurions, 6 velites, 50 fanatics, and 25 slingers. Missile fire from their own rear kill as many of the fanatics as fall before my advancing giants. The velites put up a valiant rearguard action, engaging my giants in the face of certain death, to permit the remaining fanatics to retreat from the battle. All told my giants, once again with no losses to themselves, kill two-thirds of the fanatics, two-fifths of the slingers, and all the brave velites. Seventeen fanatics, fifteen slingers, and the two centurions manage to flee into the Pythium citadel before the gates slam shut. Jorgun nearly doubles his kills, to a total of 15, and obtains 8 more trophies. An easy victory, and the 72 gold income of Pythium's farmlands are a very welcome addition to my coffers. My force settles in for a seige that I expect to Last into the next year, as the citadel's walls are formidable, twice as strong as those of my own castle, with ample supplies for the survivors huddled within. Unrest remains stable in the Black Alps, and drops in Gwyrth and the Iron Range as I have expected. The end of fighting in these lands has calmed the populace, and their lives are slowly returning to the predictability mortals seem to prefer. The Seithkona Roskva is the fifth to join my coven of magical researchers, who have presented me this month with the welcome news of having achieved mastery of the third rank of 'Alteration', and are near to completing the first rank of 'Enchantment' magics. Jorgun adds the defensive spell Body Ethereal to the magics he prepares before engaging in combat, while the Seithkonas do likewise. With knowledge of the spell Protection, with its greater breadth, I instruct that one of their number be sure to cast this first in any conflict, so that the others in the coven need no longer cast Barkskin. My realm has: </font>
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In light of my success in driving back the forces of Pythium, I feel that the Fates will be receptive to my request for one of Lit's sister Norna to join me, so I command that the appropriate gifts and celebration be prepared. I also command that one more Jotun Spearman be readied for the siege of the Pythium citadel. These preparations drain the treasury of 250 coins, and I defer bolstering provincial defenses, preferring to wait and see how Pythium reacts to his successive defeats. I decide to leave the scout Bdvar in place for yet a fifth consecutive month. <font size=1>[I just forgot about him I guess.]</font> Bove and his eight Jotun spearmen continue to march from the Alps to join my beseiging force at Pythium. I decide to have the Seithkona Urd join my army, so I send word for her to commence travelling to the Alps, by way of Gwyrth, and she is to bring along the five Jotun spearmen which had been acting as bodyguards to the coven members. I expect that the Pythium pretender will be more concerned about my army camped at his gates than in the residents of my castle. <center><font size=1>to be continued ...</font></center> [ February 11, 2004, 14:24: Message edited by: Arryn ] |
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Still, isn't having a caster within range 1 of the SC just begging to lose that caster? In one of the battles I observed, had I placed one of my mages that close to my SC (regardless of the SC's position on the field), she would never have been able to move elsewhere to safety in time after casting the spell. I'm not all that willing to sacrifice 90gp casters. The SC does tend to be a magnet for the enemy ... which is fine with me as the Wyrm is rather hard to kill by mere mundane troops. One tactic I use often is to leave the SC up front, alone, and the rest of the army behind a ways. The SC draws the enemy to it, taking the brunt of any initial charges and such, just in time for the rest of my army to arrive and dispatch the often-paralyzed attackers the wyrm may leave behind. This saves the lives of many of my giants that would otherwise have to suck up that initial charge or missile volley. I just have to be careful not to do this in a province with strong enough enemy dominion to weaken my pretender's HP (and regen) to the point that it might get killed before supporting troops arrive to distract some of the attackers. [ February 10, 2004, 13:19: Message edited by: Arryn ] |
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Still, isn't having a caster within range 1 of the SC just begging to lose that caster? In one of the battles I observed, had I placed one of my mages that close to my SC (regardless of the SC's position on the field), she would never have been able to move back to safety in time after casting the spell. I'm not all that willing to sacrifice 90gp casters. The SC does tend to be a magnet for the enemy ... which is fine with me as the Wyrm is rather hard to kill by mere mundane troops. One tactic I use often is to leave the SC up front, alone, and the rest of the army behind a ways. The SC draws the enemy to it, taking the brunt of any initial charges and such, just in time for the rest of my army to arrive and dispatch the often-paralyzed attackers the wyrm may leave behind. This saves the lives of many of my giants that would otherwise have to suck up that initial charge or missile volley. I just have to be careful not to do this in a province with strong enough enemy dominion to weaken my pretender's HP (and regen) to the point that it might get killed before supporting troops arrive to distract some of the attackers. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Well you can script the caster to retreat after they put up whatever spells you want. Of course this does lead them to not be with your army if you win. I thought they were looking into fixing that (or changing it for those who don't consider it to be a fix). That is that the winning sides retreaties actually stay with the army if it's victorious... |
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I admit that it doesn't often happen that quickly, or that thoroughly, that a mage cannot retreat to safety, but the fact that it can happen is enough for me to plan on using different tactics. BTW, I think the complexion and balance of the game will be dramatically changed if IW allows for the tactic of hit-n-run mages, or as Norfleet might phrase it, drive-by castings. [ February 09, 2004, 21:23: Message edited by: Arryn ] |
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Something's been bothering me subconsciously and I finally know what it is. Perhaps someone who's actually tried it can answer this question:
The spell Body Ethereal has an AoE of 1. The Wyrm is size 6, and thus larger than 1 standard square (or at least it looks that way on the pre-battle positioning map). Can a Seithkona still cast BE on the Wyrm, since the target takes up more squares than the BE's AoE of 1? Bonus question: how many size 2 beings fit within 1 standard square? TIA. |
Re: Jotunheim:Utgard AAR
Another thing that I forgot to mention in an earlier reply on the subject of why I didn't/wouldn't choose another path, like air, for the Wyrm. Utgard begins with no air gem sites, nor mages with air. Once the game advanced sufficiently to the point where the SC might want to cast a spell that needs gems, or craft an air item, the SC couldn't without consuming large numbers of gems in alchemy conVersions. Or worse, having to personally go search for air sites. The point of using an SC pretender is to have the SC fight. If the SC is off doing something else, then its best abilities are wasted, IMO.
I'm sure that some may argue that having an SC doing site searches isn't wasted time. I'd like for them to explain how site-searching is not a less efficient use of the SC, when that SC could be grabbing more provinces, expanding the nation's gold base and spreading dominion faster? If you take a pretender who cannot use the theme's gem resources, you are not taking full advantage of the strengths of that theme. This is why much as I like water for a pretender, I've learned to temper my enthusiasm for it when playing Jotun. Only the Jotun Niflheim theme has a water site, and I dislike the mage choices of that theme. It's my least-favorite Jotun theme. |
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<center><font size=1>Turn #9, Early Winter of year 1
The noose tightens on the snake.</font></center> Winter having set in, there are no travellers bringing word from afar of events in distant lands. Some of the defenders within Pythium's citadel sally forth in a weak, vain attempt to drive me away, aided by a half-score gladiators from the Feral Woods (#110) to the northeast. My beseiging army (avatar Jorgun, prophet Grymis, Herse Bove, and 21 Jotuns) engage one of the commanders that I have previously battled, two velites, and a total of twenty-three gladiators. We slaughter the entire enemy force, save for one velite that escapes into the Feral Woods. But the battle is not without a price. The accumulation of wounds from previous battles finally takes its toll, and three of my Jotun spearmen lay dead on the field before the citadel, and another half-dozen carry various injuries. Fortune is with my commanders, and they remain unhurt. Jorgun adds 4 more kills and 9 more trophies to his tally, while Bove claims 2 more kills and 10 more trophies, but the mood is somber as we remember the fallen. The number of dissenters declines by two in the Black Alps, and by one in Gwyrth. The number of faithful in still-independent Zenthra rises to half the populace. The Norna Skade joins her sister, Lit, in my coven, which achieve mastery of the first rank of 'Enchantment' magics and make rapid progress towards the second rank. My realm has: </font>
Gem income is: </font>
I command that another Seithkona be found for the coven, and 4 more Jotun Spearman be readied for the siege of the Pythium citadel, to make up for any losses we should suffer there over the winter. I also decide to seek out a human commander from amongst the inhabitants of the Black Alps. He may prove useful in guiding reinforcements from the capital to join with my army. These preparations drain the treasury of 240 coins, and I once again defer bolstering provincial defenses, since it appears, at least for now, that my lands are under no threat. It is a calculated, but reasonably safe risk this early in the war. The Seithkona Urd, bringing five Jotun spearmen to replace our losses, continues her march from the Alps. Judging the strategic situation to be well in hand, I decide to leave my beseiging Jotuns under the able command of my prophet, while my avatar, alone, goes forth to the independent river valley of Eribon (#74), and the estimated half-score heavy cavalry that await there. <font size=1 color=brown>PS - All provinces with positive dominion are currently at Cold-2.</font> <font color=blue>I make a number of small, but careless mistakes this turn:</font> </font>
[ February 11, 2004, 14:23: Message edited by: Arryn ] |
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I, of course, being inherently suspicious, interpreted it as a deliberate act, which simply inspired him to actually *MAKE* it a deliberate act, and so progress against his empire literally ground to a halt as every turn, my horde of marauding undead would be decimated in a hit-and-run, drive-by priesting. It's definitely workable, if you deliberately build for it. Hit-and-run is definitely a workable tactic that can counter any attempt to make a line-drive for your capitol, provided you're willing to be a little flexible about the holding of territory: Guerrilla mages can definitely put a cramp in one's style. An expansion on this would be very interesting for Dominions II: Sneaking units that can perform sneaking retreats, even into enemy territory, that are thus able to harass and attack enemy forces in a campaign of guerrilla warfare. [ February 10, 2004, 07:12: Message edited by: Norfleet ] |
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So, Norfy, I'm glad you're taking the time to read my AAR. Even if you haven't been commenting on the AAR itself. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif But your "drive-by priesting" phrase is so amusing to me that I forgive you your sins. I will leave you with the mental image of a red-armored knight riding a white dragon (called 'gold leader') flying inside a very long chasm filled with randomly-spaced ballista-armed watchtowers, yelling to another flyer "stay on topic ... stay on topic ..." {yes, I'm a huge SW fan} [ February 10, 2004, 09:40: Message edited by: Arryn ] |
Re: Jotunheim:Utgard AAR
Not wanting to start a big argument here (but doing it anyway http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif ), but it seems you gave up on an Air Wyrm a little bit to easy (not taking into account the range of BE). IME, the Seithkona will very reliably cast BE (and Luck) on the Wyrm BEFORE casting it on herself. Thus, after researching Enchantment 3, you can start the battle with the Seithkona casting BE and Luck and the Wyrm casting Mistform, Mirror Image and then attacking.
The weakness is (as you have pointed out) protecting the Seithkona. I try to do this by having one 'suicide' troop in the other end of the battlefield. If you place your troops right, the enemy won't reach him before the Wyrm starts moving forward (and thus the seithkona will never be targeted). Alternatively, you can skip MI (the Wyrm not having very good defense anyway) and go Mistform, Flight, Attack closest instead. In that way, you can start the Wyrm far back and get it to the front in time to take the initial enemy charge. Of course, troop placement will be crucial. IMO, an Astral Wyrm is easier to use, but with national Astral mages, an Air Wyrm can be just as good (with careful planning and troop placement). In MP, I would like to have at least 6, preferably 7 on a Astral pretender, making the Air Wyrm a much cheaper choice. As for using a Pretender with the same magic as your national gem income, I agree that it can be important sometimes, but IMO not in your case. Your Wyrm only has Astral 4 and you will get plenty of Nornas with Astral 3. And Astral can very easily be boosted in combat... OTOH, having easy access to air spells such as Storm, Mass Flight and Fog Warriors is great for all nations. And alchemy from Astral gems for the purpose of casting battle field spells is not a big deal. Just my two cents of course (oh, BTW, despite being quite expensive, I would definitely consider a 3 Air, 3 Earth Wyrm. Invulnerability, Mistform and Mirror Image, and BE/Luck from a Seithkona. Try hurting that one http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif ). |
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I concur with Patrik.
Jotun's biggest weakness is the lack of random picks in fire/earth/air. Getting air on the pretender gives you among others access to air magic, wards vs air, protection vs missiles & protection vs fliers...all stuff you do not have. Your cold dominion & your air proficiency also offer a degree of protection vs fire. Getting astral on your pretender doesn't help compensate for this, and in addition makes your other vulnerability (being a 2nd tier astral nation) even bigger, as now both your battle mages & your pretender are vulnerable to Magic duel. This will not hurt you in SP, but can easily doom you in MP. While you could get a high lv of astral to avoid this vulnerability a Wyrm doesn't cut it as a SC in the end game, so investing in high astral would not be a good idea IMO. Non humanoid pretenders can barely stand vs fully equipped humanoid ones when Const4+ is researched, much less when artifacts come into play. The Wyrm works as a relatively expendable, easy to use, forgivable with mistakes Pretender for early expansion both in land & seas. Trying to turn the critter into something else with more than some token magic is a waste of design points IMO. |
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