Order of weapons fire / damage?
 

I notice in the the Newbie FAQ it says:

"2.3.1.1 An example of this is to place shield depleters before your main weapons. Another example is to place a tractor beam before some high damage weapon like ripper beams, and then maybe even use a repulsor beam after that."

This implies to me that the order you place weapons on a ship dictates the order that they fire, but does a weapon on the far right of a ship display fire first (because components on the right get damaged first usually, no? Or am I mistaken here?) or does a weapon on the far left of a ship fire first? Sorry for being confused!

Tribble

Re: Order of weapons fire / damage?
 

A few things factor into how a weapon fires. Strategy for one. If your strategy is set to say max range, then the longer range weapons should fire first. I could be mistaken however as this is not a topic that I know much about.

Good question though.

Re: Order of weapons fire / damage?
 

When you design a ship, the componants are added from left to right.

With all things being equal, the firing order is from left to right.

Weapons with insufficient ranges may get skipped over and not fired. The same goes for weapons with special damage types that can not be applied to the target.
Of course this is affected by targeting range, target choices, and maybe multiplex targeting.

Re: Order of weapons fire / damage?
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Okay, that makes things clearer. BTW am I right in thinking, all things being equal, that damage *to* a ship occurs from right to left?

Tribble

Re: Order of weapons fire / damage?
 

Damage to a ship is random given the following:

All components are of equal size and tonnage structure.
No components have the armor (or any variation of the) ability.
Each hit will destroy one component.

So assuming a ship with say ten components and using the above, the order of damage is random. If you notice your ships are getting pounded from right to left (most of the time) than I bet you have mostly armor ability or larger components on the right too.

Re: Order of weapons fire / damage?
 

Internal components (ie: not armor) tend to be destroyed in the order of most hit points (tonnage structure, NOT size) to fewest hit points. There is some randomization, so your big weapons don't always blow up first, but they are more likely to be hit than, say, a bridge.

For armor components (they have the armor ability), they tend to be destroyed in the opposite order, with those with fewer hit points tending to be destroyed before those with more hit points.

Assuming you put your weapons on Last, then you would tend to see a right to left type progression of damaged components, simply because the comps with the most hit points are on the right. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Re: Order of weapons fire / damage?
 

I have notice that it's hard to destroy the self-destruct device and the ECM. I would fight the AI and try to damage their ships enough so my boarding parties can try to capture the ship and 7 times out of 10 (for me at least) those would be the Last component left. Very fustrating. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon8.gif

Re: Order of weapons fire / damage?
 

OK, so a related question that I have always puzzled over and never fully answered:

who fires first in a (strategic) combat?

I know that if one side is at a WP and the other side warps in, then the defender goes first...

but I recently had a combat where I was the defender and it really looked like none of my guys fired first, and, well, I lost my entire fleet (and it looks like I am going down in flames becuase of it)...

so...who first first?

thanks,

Alarik

Re: Order of weapons fire / damage?
 

From the FAQ:

6.8.4 Firing Order
6.8.4.1 In Gold, the defender goes first in combat. If there are multiple defenders or attackers, then the order that they go is randomly determined. eg: If A attacks both B and C in a sector, then the movement order could be B, C, A or it could be C, B, A. (Imperator Fyron)
6.8.4.2 The Defender is anyone that was in the sector already. Attacker is someone that just moved into the sector. Or, if all parties were already in the sector, the Attacker is the one that issues the Attack order. In a Simultaneous game, I would assume that if both players give the attack order at the same time, the lower player number gets to be the attacker. (Imperator Fyron)
6.8.4.3 For warp points: If A warps through and finds B already in the sector, B is the defender and A is the attacker. But if A warps through, and then B moves onto the sector in a later game day, B is the attacker and A is the defender. (Imperator Fyron)
6.8.4.4 For planet attacks using fighter: The planet is generally on the defender side, unless the person owning the planet sends ships in to stop a blockade. Whoever moves first (the defender) is the one that gets to launch fighters first. (Imperator Fyron)


Also note that "firing first" is influenced by movement speed. If 2 fleets are initially positioned far from each other, the one who fires first is the one who is in range first (usually at the end of a turn).


Slick.

[ March 23, 2004, 20:14: Message edited by: Slick ]

Re: Order of weapons fire / damage?
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Yeah, I know what you talking about. It make no sense to board a ship with a self-destruct device, so I did what any sensible person would do: I erased the self-destruct component. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

Since them (and after starting a new game because the old one got broken) everything plays like a dream. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

[ March 23, 2004, 20:40: Message edited by: Yef ]

Re: Order of weapons fire / damage?
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Dam, why that never happens to me?
I always win, mostly because the AI can't put together a fleet as big as mine, so I take on their fleets at piece meal.
I would be sooo cool to lose to the AI.

Aside from attacking Homeworlds, all other fights are way too easy. When it comes to a war of attrition the AI can't compete.

The only thing the AI managed to do quite well its sabotages, and that only until I found out the tactic of colonizing a system with at least 2 breathable planets with low resource output and devoting it to Intelligence, no matter how bad my research situation.

[ March 23, 2004, 20:49: Message edited by: Yef ]

Re: Order of weapons fire / damage?
 

you just have to love the FAQ.

Re: Order of weapons fire / damage?
 

Bah! It was to another player that I suffered this. The AI would *never* get me in the position I'm in in this game...(ie: really really screwed)

And, well, I did see that answer in the FAQ, but, gosh, I would swear that although I *was* the defender, my guys still didn't fire first. Maybe it's something with my strategies...

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Dam, why that never happens to me?
I always win, mostly because the AI can't put together a fleet as big as mine, so I take on their fleets at piece meal.
I would be sooo cool to lose to the AI.

Aside from attacking Homeworlds, all other fights are way too easy. When it comes to a war of attrition the AI can't compete.

The only thing the AI managed to do quite well its sabotages, and that only until I found out the tactic of colonizing a system with at least 2 breathable planets with low resource output and devoting it to Intelligence, no matter how bad my research situation. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">

Re: Order of weapons fire / damage?
 

Being defender means you get to go first. But, you might still end up firing after the attacker, depending on the distance between the ships, speed, range, etc.

Re: Order of weapons fire / damage?
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Although you would naturally assume A, B and C are three different empires, I have come to believe that 3 different fleets are all you need. So, if he came in with two fleets, luck of the draw could easily give him first shot. I don't know if this is true, but I'm getting that feeling from my own experiences.

Re: Order of weapons fire / damage?
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Is this your gruelling defeat before the awesome weaponry of the Xetan Empire you're refering to?

Seriously, if so, I woudln't say you're really screwed - if I had not won that battle, I would have lost the war - I would not have had enough production to build sufficient hardware to even slow you down.

Re: Order of weapons fire / damage?
 

In one game against the religious player I had a fully trained fleet of ~200 dreadnoughts 2 squares from the warp point and my enemy had ~80 talisman baseships 4 squares from the warp point. The plan was to warp (get closer in combat) and get the first shot as a defender fleet. Next turn I lost the entire fleet when the enemy lost ~10 ships. I didn't even look at the movement log as it was obvious that he warped first and got the first shot. Oh well...