Re: Djinnibad - Nomads and Genies
 

Of course AOE 1 can't hit itself, but I meant larger AOE, while 2 attacks look about the same as flying icon for me..
--> it's one weapon with 2 attacks in it.. it just swallows 2 whole squares basicly (unless they can jump away)

Well, it can do it with, say, basic dmg 30 + Str 30 quite well.
--> but everything that is swallowed should die http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif

Well, some could say that 999-damage area attack isn't quite their idea of a nice balance...
--> well I'm thinking of balance compared to a high level summon like arch-demons and seraph.. considering this one isn't a leader has low item slots AND no magic... there has to be something nasty about him (personally I think he's still weaker)

It might be a thought to make a less strong summon (lower level of course) with a weaker swallow attack like you have
I could name the smaller ones "Sandworm" and the larger ones "Shai-Hulud"

Good to know size 7 can't be done pplz

QUESTION:
is there a way to make a unit get flying without the symbol showing up? (is there a way to use a onebattlespell that is basicly flight modified so the symbol doesn't show (I don't know what exactly "causes" the symbol to appear. (if this can be done I'd do this and the screw burrowing on the large map.. else I'll just give him flying http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif

Re: Djinnibad - Nomads and Genies
 

Well, if I would be averse to strange looks I wouldn't play Dominions... It's not as if the game's main attraction is in its glamourous graphics! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...es/biggrin.gif

Re: Djinnibad - Nomads and Genies
 

Just hope your idea of balancing it wouldn't include Move 10... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...ies/tongue.gif

Re: Djinnibad - Nomads and Genies
 

Monster FIsh has a swallow attack. Double dmg vs smaller beings IIRC.

Re: Djinnibad - Nomads and Genies
 

Yeah, something like that. I just seen it in modding manual so don't know who actually has it. Thanks in any case.

Re: Djinnibad - Nomads and Genies
 

Please have a look at the nation as it is now. For easier looking into sandworms they are also available as a recruit (and not too expensive yet) but obviously that is not what they will be in the end

Let me know what you think about the way I used sprites for teh sandworm and about their balance. (it's a 35 earth gem summon.. that isn't cheap IMHO and not easy to cast)

Re: Djinnibad - Nomads and Genies
 

I'm otherwise occupied for a while. I might throw together cavalry sprite or two, but don't expect major progress for a week or two.

Re: Djinnibad - Nomads and Genies
 

I understand, it's not like I'm paying you http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif everything you can do is welcomed but no pressure

Re: Djinnibad - Nomads and Genies
 

To Endoperez:
Yes, it's completely all-right. We have some stalling here, too, it seems... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif
I'll probably make LA version in a few days, together with slightly rebalanced MA.

Re: Djinnibad - Nomads and Genies
 

anybody like the sandworms?

Re: Djinnibad - Nomads and Genies
 

They aren't an arab myth, they are generic desert monsters. It's your mod, but I don't like the idea.

Re: Djinnibad - Nomads and Genies
 

I'm focussing more on desert now http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif, a desert race for a Dune reader like myself was unthinkable once I thought of it.. and the race needed a nice race specific summon.. it's not gonna be a recruitable in in the end.. this was just to show how he looks.

Re: Djinnibad - Nomads and Genies
 

Thank Cthulhu for small favors! You really didn't make it Move 10.

Re: Djinnibad - Nomads and Genies
 

Do you really think the sandworm is better than a seraph or archdevil? or a GOR tartarian?

Re: Djinnibad - Nomads and Genies
 

Probably not... depends on the gem cost and overall stats. I've heard some characteristics discussed yet haven't seen its overall stats.

Re: Djinnibad - Nomads and Genies
 

You should probably take a Tarrasque as an example...
BTW, there are no sources that describe Jinn as ethereal creatures. Actually, there are signs of just the opposite.. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

To All:
What do you think is better - take Shiite clergy as LA while Sunni will act in MA, or vice versa? If you don't remember, Sunni clergy is more secular-action-oriented (meaning higher Ld & some nudane abilities, such as patrolling in example above), while Shiite one is more mystical-oriented & more fundamentalist (meaning probably higher Priest level & certainly that they should get some magic levels)... Also, MA is based on Arabo-Persian states around 10th century & LA - on Turkish Empire.

Re: Djinnibad - Nomads and Genies
 

I would not use such direct links to a real world belief. Priest is close enough then do with the stats what you like.

Re: Djinnibad - Nomads and Genies
 

#newweapon 802 --- Sand worm
#name "devour"
#AOE 1
#dmg 999
#bonus
#magic
#armornegating
#nratt 2 --- to simulate it can swallow huge numbers of troops at once.
#att 3
#def 0
#len 0
#end

#newspell
#name "Summon Sandworm"
#descr "This spell allows the mage to communicate with an ancient and huge sandworm and persuade it to join your cause."
#school 0
#restricted 78
#researchlevel 8
#path 0 3
#path 1 0
#pathlevel 0 4
#pathlevel 1 3
#effect 10001
#fatiguecost 3500
#damage 2811
#nreff 1
#end


#newmonster 2811
#spr1 "Nomads and genies/Sandworm_2.tga"
#spr2 "Nomads and genies/Sandworm_1.tga"
#name "Sandworm"
#descr "The sandworm is the largest creature known on the planet. It prefers to live deep in deserts where it spends most of it's time burrowing deep under the ground. It attacks by swallowing whole regiments of troops or even multiple elephants at a time. Once devoured by a sandworm nothing can survive since the combination of the bowelmovements and extreme heat, which it uses to burrow through the ground, are deadly to everything. The Sandworm burrowing makes it tactical and strategical maneuverable like flying units"
#hp 300
#size 6
#ressize 6
#prot 18
#mor 15
#mr 18
#enc 3
#str 30
#att 13
#def 12
#prec 10
#mapmove 4
#ap 10
#gcost 100
#rcost 20
#itemslots 12288 -- two misc
#wastesurvival
#weapon 802 - devour
#trample
#regenerate 10
#stealth 5
#fireres 100
#coldres -50
#shockres -50
#flying
#maxage 100000
#older 10000
#end

that is my sandworm stuff

Re: Djinnibad - Nomads and Genies
 

They are different enough to base different eras on them. So I asked which split would be better.
Also I currently written down names list (male mostly, but I will add women's names when I get my hands on some list). It's in the current 0.12 version, together with some genies of Persian origin and Arabian physician/alchemist. Some will probably be dropped - ghul trooper, for example, will be probably useless unless we come up with some clever idea on what it should do.
Another moment - in 1001 human - > animal transformations are rather common, so we should have some magicians who can pull it off. And this is done by mortal magicians more often than by genies! Probably we should do 1 type with classical "Sorcery" paths & another one with Elemental paths?
Also, iiuc, Marid is the name of those genies who rejected Allah/Pantokrator, so this name should probably appear in the MA when Islam-like religion is used by Nomads. These Jinn would lose sacred status together with priest levels, but gain magic levels instead (while their EA predescessors with priest levels should probably be just called Jinn).

Re: Djinnibad - Nomads and Genies
 

I don't think marid rejected allah perse

Re: Djinnibad - Nomads and Genies
 

This is the meaning of the name iirc.

Re: Djinnibad - Nomads and Genies
 

Next update, including some reworking of mages & reworked MA genies...

Re: Djinnibad - Nomads and Genies
 

Jinn can definitely interact with the physical world, but all ethereal creatures can do that.

Point is, they are made of smokeless fire, yeah? Everything else that is made-of-fire, or wind for that matter, is ethereal.

Ethereal in this game doesn't mean you can walk through walls; air elementals are ethereal and obviously can't do that. It means that magic is required to harm you reliably, which I'm pretty sure is true of jinn.

But glamour/stealth is clearly more essential to their nature than etherealness, so if they're only going to have one or the other, jinn should have glamour.

Re: Djinnibad - Nomads and Genies
 

Ethereal - combat monsters if they use any kind of armor, ESPECIALLY the commanders.

Stealthy (esp. with flying) - awesome tactical mobility and raiding capability.

Glamour (esp. with flying) - your opponent won't know where your forces are, or where your best mages are, unless you're already fighting. It also helps them a lot in combat.

Personally, I can see djinn having either stealth or glamour, but I'd be careful with any one djinn having both.

Re: Djinnibad - Nomads and Genies
 

To DrPraetorius:
As I've said, quite the opposite is true. For example, a short poem by a 6th century warrior-poet Taabbata Sharran describes a jinn personally killed by author with a sword (and without any magic mentioned). In 1001 Nights, which was written down much later, one jinn is killed by a date seed - while being invisible! Invisibility, or ability to turn into likeness of another, on the other hand, is mentioned quite often.
In the game, I can mention one of the Fire Kings, who is quite material... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif While in the Persian folklore at least (which I know better than Arabian one, though I will possibly get some materials on the latter soon) Perih are clearly made up from fire, but are clearly material to the point that they intermarry with humans. They are skinshifters, though.
To Endoperez:
Did you mean "ethereal or glamour"? For Glamour units are quite often stealthy... And if you meant etherealness, than yes, I personally much prefer them having glamour, while etherealness would be possibly present only for marids which are mages, not troops - & even this I'm not sure of. Aezeal, on the other hand, prefers etherealness for some reason not currently understood by myself - he mentioned something about not being similar to Vans... :shrug:
As I see it, Perih should have Awe, Daw - Fear and be physically strong, Jinn as such - Glamour, Efreeti - be really hot guys w/ Heat & Fear (though this name is often used interchangable with Jinn & Marid, but they now got a separate tradition of their own...), Ghul - Fear, while being undead (as I've said, I'm not sure about possibility of Ghul troops).
Where Jann & Sola came from, I currently don't know so I don't plan to include them in MA/LA. LA possibly should include Yajudj & Madjuj, though.. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif It's possible that Jann are the same creatures as Peryh, though. Could you remember something on this?

Re: Djinnibad - Nomads and Genies
 

Nope, I meant stealth OR glamour. If they had both, they'd be more similar to Vanir and would probably be annoyingly good raiders (thanks to glamour giving them +20 stealth minimum). Glamour alone seems enough to cover the illusions.

Re: Djinnibad - Nomads and Genies
 

Devour as a magical attack?

Perhaps it shouldn't be, after all it's hard to eat something noncorporeal/ethereal like a ghost or a shade.

Re: Djinnibad - Nomads and Genies
 

To Endoperez:
Well, Arabian-based faction SHOULD have good raiders.. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif And that they sometimes pulled really wicked tricks of that kind you surely had heard. What I can promise is that really hard-hitting types probably wouldn't have stealth - after all, it's quite difficult to miss an appearance of Efreet "tall as the sky", or Daw "tall as a tower". Though they wouldn't be SO large in a game, sorry.
BTW, there is some discontinuity in the sources - efreets/marids are often descibed as very large, but are still able to appear in small rooms & bed human women sometimes. This could mean either that extra-large size is glamour-based illusion, or that they have second shape which is used for combat purposes - which agrees fine with Perih & Daw having animal forms...

Re: Djinnibad - Nomads and Genies
 

Glamour is illusions and I don't see them as that, I see them as magic beings living in our world but also not of this world. And to me that is ethereal.

Only the Jann is ethereal, made of smoke and fire (like fire elementals = ethereal

The Sola is a creature of magma (mix of ghost light and a king of elemental fire, but weakish) in my describtion and can fly/hover

The Marid and Efriti just fly since I didn't want to overpower them.
IF I would give them anything else I'd give Efriti etherealness too and Marid glamour (I see marids casting illusions etc)

anyway all that arabs ancient literature is just telling everything all ways so you can't really use it as a solid base.

Saulot: I thought that command didn't actually make it a MAGIC attack, it just makes it a special attack that wouldn't disappear when equipping weapons (natural attack) why I thought that I can't find atm. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif
(ah I found it that is #bonus)
The fire in it's insides are hot though don't thing an average ethereal being would enjoy being there.

but I guess # magic is out indeed

Re: Djinnibad - Nomads and Genies
 

but is that sandworm overpowered for 35 gems???

Re: Djinnibad - Nomads and Genies
 

I don't think it's overpowered for 35 gems.

The age setting seems too high, I've been under the impression the age of sandworms are ranges in thousands of years.
The current age ranges in the tens of thousands with a maximum of 100,000.

Also according to the wikipedia the sandworm is highly susceptible to water poisoning.

Re: Djinnibad - Nomads and Genies
 

To Aezeal.
What you don't see is completely your own problem. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...ies/tongue.gif That Jinn often turned invisible & changed their appearance is mentioned quite often. And this is what is said in the description of Glamour. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif
As for living in this world but being not of this world, it's unfortunately out of question.. Allah HAD made other worlds populated by angels according to some sources, but angels & Jinns are different beings - Shaitan sometimes appears to have common features with Jinn, but that's it. Jinn and especially "lesser" races of geniefolk are much closer to mortals than to angels - they may intermarry with humans and have children, including common with them, they die & aren't always especially long-lived, they are killed by normal weapons, etc...
I didn't met Jann in any sources I've seen except AD&D and there they aren't ethereal. As for being made of fire this is mentioned for Jinn in general, Perih & possibly angles (I'm not sure whether it's worth it to include Islamic angels which possibly wouldn't be different enough from those which Marignon, e.g., summons).
Sola I also didn't meet. Where did you find them? Name suggests something of probably Hellenistic/Neo-Platonist origins, though this is of course no reason to drop them entirely - if they are overpowered or aren't fit to the same patten as other genies, this will be reason enough.
What I would give to Efreets is larger combat form & smaller human-sized one, though I'm not currently clear about which advantages the latter should have. Both names are often used interchangably as I already mentioned, but it's possible to make 2 different subraces by making Efreets thugs & Marids mages..
I can use it as a good base. If you can't that's completely different problem - and not mine. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/smirk.gif Any folklore has some discontinuity as it's created by many people during large periods of time, but for the same reason it mostly conforms to the common pattern. (I won't get to deeply into this here unless there is an interest). As I mentioned above, these patterns are relatively clear - but they differ somewhat between Arabian & Persian folklore (the latter, e.g., rarely describes Jinns as such, though it mentions them). And 1001 as such was written in Late Middle Ages, and in Egypt to boot! It contains Persian and even Indian influences - so I would prefer to use its patterns preferably in LA (I now think about sorcerers)...
#bonus means just it - & is mostly used for mount attacks, etc. While qeapon equipping shouldn't be a problem if the monster in question has only misc slots - you just can't equip weapons in them - excluding those which give #bonus themselves! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/smirk.gif
As for overpowered - I have currently no time for experiments with it in its various versions. Did you make any? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

Re: Djinnibad - Nomads and Genies
 

Sorry for taking such a long leave. The original reason for this didn't take more than a couple of days, but I just didn't feel motivated. I still don't, because camels are hard to draw, and because I'm still not sure if warriors are supposed to sit before, after or on the hump. Still, I got some progress. This preliminary camel rider has weird proportions and doesn't look like a sprite yet, but he's drawn quite a bit larger than necessary so I can work on those details once I shrink him down. The camel was edited from Waste Survival icon.

http://www.shrapnelcommunity.com/thr...06224-temp.jpg

Re: Djinnibad - Nomads and Genies
 

wow I love it .. really... if you insist it's not ready yet I won't use it yet though

Re: Djinnibad - Nomads and Genies
 

I insist that you don't use the jotun riding the tree-legged camel. If there was an ordinary Dominions cavalry unit next to it, the human's head would be at the same level with the camel's. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...ies/tongue.gif

Re: Djinnibad - Nomads and Genies
 

Good! Sorry, I still have no camel-rider illustration at hand to point where the rider actually sits. But probably will even if I have to purhase Osprey book & wait half-year while it gets to Moscow! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...es/biggrin.gif

Re: Djinnibad - Nomads and Genies
 

Google Image got me several pictures with people sitting in front of the hump, and one with the swordsman sitting behind it. I don't know if the latter is just a mistake or made by someone who has researched how warriors rode camels. At least it will look similar to horse-riders, so it should fit in to the Dominions sprites quite well.

Re: Djinnibad - Nomads and Genies
 

What I do know is that in case of Bactrian camels riders are placed between humps - but these were mostly used as draft animals... actually, they are included as such in my MA - speaking of which do you have any opinion about where it's better to place Shiite priesthood and where a Sunni one? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

Re: Djinnibad - Nomads and Genies
 

I don't know about that one, but you'll get excellent priest sprites shortly. Much better than the sprites I make, even. You'll have to use #copyspr and wait for after the weekend or so, but that shouldn't be a problem.

Re: Djinnibad - Nomads and Genies
 

Well it took over 3 hours to create another pair of images for one single unit. Thinking of the unit... I'll want to slightly change its attire for more difference appeal.

I hope things are moving faster for you guys doing the Djinnibad mod.

Re: Djinnibad - Nomads and Genies
 

Priest sprites would be excellent!
And here is the almost-ready version of MA.
What remains is mages, particularly balance of their cost & Sandstorm spell. The latter would probably require much work as I have little knowledge of spell modding. But it should be included in all 3 eras, so after this LA would be much easier...

Re: Djinnibad - Nomads and Genies
 

Well NT I can't do human sprites I'm sure and Endo is busy .. but we'll get there..

I'm not really involved in the MA mod since it's to much based on a real nation instead of existing myths and I'm not in favor that much and all my suggestions of keeping references to real world religions out of it are ignored http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif.

I'm very interested in teh sandstorm spell though http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif

Re: Djinnibad - Nomads and Genies
 

Me too. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/cool.gif But probably will be finished in this weekend. For now you can copy Cheetahs summoning & Palace-building spell (probably should be somewhat higher cost, though). They are appropriate in any era & are independent of changes in genies. For now I moved Khaliph & Pekhlevan to multiheroes - this keeps them in game without them affecting balance too much. Possibly Pekhlevan should be recruitable, but I will need to think more on his balance...
And existing myths were made in frame of real world religion.. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

Re: Djinnibad - Nomads and Genies
 

I'd still not call priests directly after sunni or shiite..

Re: Djinnibad - Nomads and Genies
 

They surely won't be called thus! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...es/biggrin.gif I mentioned them so here to avoid having to explain their differences. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif