Re: Djinnibad - Nomads and Genies
 

Those nomads seem pretty superhuman. Stronger, tougher, more endurance, faster, more skilled, better magic res,.. not by much it's true but still, they're flat out better than your usual dom3 humans.

Re: Djinnibad - Nomads and Genies
 

hmm are they faster, maybe that should be lower and I didn't know I did anything with endurance

what are the normal stats for those 2

for the rest well.. barbs are stronger too and morale is lower http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif

They have to be stronger .. they only get low grade material, they live in the desert, they are no pampered city inhabiting dogs http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif

Re: Djinnibad - Nomads and Genies
 

Normal human enc is 3.

Normal human AP is 12.

Re: Djinnibad - Nomads and Genies
 

would you consider the nomads as they are way to strong? aren't the barbs stronger too?

basicly: do you think they are too strong even considering the things why I made them a bit stronger?

Re: Djinnibad - Nomads and Genies
 

I don't know about their balance. That's a matter of context.

I just wondered if you meant them to be above par racially.

Re: Djinnibad - Nomads and Genies
 

well as I said above, I consider them between "regular" city folk and barbarians context wise. I don't really have a clue about every stat in the game (but I do you that excellent spreadsheat so not I'll look it up.)
I'll give them AP 13, keep enc on 2 (as barbs) HP and strength are between regular humans and barbs as I wanted
the morale is lower (as barb) and MR is higher just cus I want it that way in this nation. (MA could even be lower again as genie influence wanes

PS I found THE perfect sprite for nomad wazirs: wind master sprites seem to wear exactly what the marid wazir wears http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif blueisch too which fits their astral magic thingie

PPS 2 astral isn't that a bit weakish in EA, maybe a random EFAN wouldn't be out of place

Re: Djinnibad - Nomads and Genies
 

The roc is atm without rider, it is a great eagle on which I edited the color a bit (more reddish) the stats are the same, they seem to fit a large bird.

but.. how much gc should such a thingie be, it can't trample and has less HP, strength and prot than most elephants but higher MR and ATT/def... elephants are mostly strong through trample so considering the birdie dont have that I made them 50 gc now..

balanced enough?

PS why would you ever summon a great eagle for 3 air gems and wasting a mage turn (I seem to recall that is their price)

I'm doubting wether I should make it ridden (2 forms, first 11 HP, and seconshape this eagle form)

Re: Djinnibad - Nomads and Genies
 

Since a lot of the good modders seem to look in here now and then I have another question: can you arrange in which order the troops appear on the recruit bar?

(I'd like nomads first, then my 2 sacreds and lastly the HUGE roc)

Re: Djinnibad - Nomads and Genies
 

Yes; it's the order in which you list #addreccom and #addrecunit. Any units available from sites are always added last, though, so if the Roc isn't site-spesific and even one of the sacreds is, you can't do it.

Re: Djinnibad - Nomads and Genies
 

ah so cap only units are always last..
hmm one of them is so I guess then I'll do nomads, roc, sacred

Re: Djinnibad - Nomads and Genies
 

btw endo:
I really liked the nomad warrior, keep up the good work if you figure out how to give them a scimitar (you could copy the one the jann has?) I'll add them to my mod file.

Think you can do the cavalry too?

What do you think about the discussion about stats?

What do you think about the roc?

PS I attached what I have in sprites and .dm file so far so those interested or working with me on this can check it out if they want.

Re: Djinnibad - Nomads and Genies
 

I'm going to see Bandar Log and EA Kailasa for the curved swords, and perhaps C'tis as well. It's not the sword (when I can compare to Dominions sprites) but where the hands are located that's giving me trouble. I think I'll go watch some youtube videos about Kalaripayattu and see if I can find something interesting. I think I'll give the commanders slightly different poses and fancier attack.

Re: Djinnibad - Nomads and Genies
 

On stats: I wouldn't give them higher sterngth - after all, classic barbarian unit is straight from Conan the Barbarian, & in this mythos desert nomads are wiry & fast, not particularly strong. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif Better defense is fine & it's along these lines. AP 13 is probably okay, remembering "running back & forth" mentioned above (btw you were partly right, it's Mohammed who introduced phalanx-like formations here, though they probably seen something before serving as mercs during Persian-Byzantine wars). Higher MR can be explained by genie influence & the fact that genies were certainly not above mixing their blood with that of subject folk... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif BTW this could explaine higher stats of your "dervish" pretty well! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif Though gold cost is probably going to be 11? Rukh - I would think it summon, but understand your reasoning on summonable eagle (I tried it once & never used since! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/smirk.gif) - for usefulness we can remember that Roc/Rukh was said to hunt elephantes & give it better attack against large creatures (not sure how it works, though) or something along these lines (& you surely can imagine what it would be to be near such birdie than it starts to beat wings, so trample isn't completely out of question... or swallow).
Also, on the desert garb - did you remember that 'furs' also give defense & encumbrance penalty which desert garb shouldn't do?
On .dm - probably genie nobility should get something richer than leather cuirass? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif Even "magical lightweight armor" http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif possibly?
on MA - for now it looks about this:
units: Nomad infantry, Nomad cavalry - both armored,etc. as above, probably stealthy (in this case, got "raiders" in their name);
Deilemite (mountainmen) infantry - light armor (see which), large shield, javelin, probably their authentic jupine (2-end spear http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif ) or axe/bardiche/halberd, better morale;
Corsairs - 2 scimitars, probably leather cuirass (these don't wear desert garb!), pillage bonus;
Faris (Arab noble cavalry) - standart noble stats boost, light lance, chain hauberk, probably thrown axe or javelin;
Ghulam cavalry - full scale, composite bow, scimitar or broadsword (they almost never used lances);
Nomad ahdas (militia) - purhased for 1 battle, so cheaper, stats are as normal;
Ghazi - sacred, probably both infantry & cavalry; probably Ghulam/Mamluk infantry;
slighly possible elephant or nafta throwers (both were used in the region, but relatively rare = if make, then capital only). Maybe add some more regular infantry such as citizen militia?
Commanders:
Nomad chieftain (stealthy, I think, but with Ld 40);
Corsair captain (?) - sailing, of course!;
Pekhlevan - noble with genie blood, so larger than human, much stronger, with some random(?) magic;
Imam (priest 2), Kadi (priest 2 with patrol bonus/decrease unrest), Hoji (priest 3, capital only?), possibly Khalif as a highest priest (4) with fighting ability & Ld 40; possibly capital-only Ismailite priest?
Amir or something as regular troops commander with Ld 80;
Star-gazer - Astral 2 mage, prevent bad events;
Elemental sorcerers of at least 2 kinds (normal and higher, need to think that up);
Thief of Baghdad/Xanadu - spy (unfortunately, engine doesn't allow him to be used to steal, e.g., opponent's gems http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif );
Hashishiine - names says all. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif
Genies become summons in this era, except possibly some minor one...

Re: Djinnibad - Nomads and Genies
 

makes for a very religious nation.

Personally I'd not use mountainmen, I'm sure they where there but it just makes the nation look like a rag tag of tribes with the corsairs and the nomads and genie offspring. I'd focus a bit more on only nomads (continuity through the era's) and the most general "arab" stuff (which seem to be the ghulam/faram/ghazi.

Maybe keep some genies (continuity) one of the troop as cap only and the regular efriti/marid as cap only too (--> you wanted elemental sorcerers?) the genie nobility would then be summons

I think you are making to many types of priests, just remove the imam and go with the Kadi (both priest 2 seems a bit much) and no level 4 priests (are there many recruitable lvl 4 priests in the game?)

Same on the cavalry btw nomad, ghulam, faris AND Ghazi... maybe one or two to much?
(on this point and the last, maybe try to find a separation for some to fit better in LA? (the most heavily armoured?))

The Pekhlevan sounds like a very good idea

No magic carpets?

All in all I think we mustn't get much more units in an era than regular nations (I see it a lot in Sombre's excellent warhammer nations, but IMHO you won't use most of them, just the most efficient, and having a few around just for flavour is nice but let's not overdo it) (my roc seems very useless really but I wanted one since I like it from Sinbad's legend http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif)

The star-gazer and his abilities seem nice but maybe call him Wazir too?

reply on my .dm: yes they probably should get a bit more than leathers indeed, but they don't wear that much and I didn't find anything in vanilla game that seemed suitable and I didn't want a high class armour. Something for the bracers, shoulderpads and belt etc... is there a name for such an outfit?

and your point on the desert garb: do you mean you think the desertgarb should get those penalties too?

Re: Djinnibad - Nomads and Genies
 

Do my warhammer nations have more troop types than regular dom3 ones?

Re: Djinnibad - Nomads and Genies
 

well I look a lot at your skaven mod since I figure every command is in there. and it sure LOOKS like they have a ****load of troops. Same for your lizardmen plans.. though I must admit you seem to use national summons in insane amounts too.

I don't really play mod nations though so it's just an impression I got from the DM files and the threads

anyway even from most vanilla nations only half the troops are used on aturn to turn basis

Re: Djinnibad - Nomads and Genies
 

First four nomad sprites attached. The buckler is just a blot, but the sword/pose is good. I prefer the alternative versions (lower ones on this preview image), but we need nomad commanders too so all will probably be used. Commanders will get different colors, jewel or feather on their turban, different sash (if that means cloth belt like I think it does) etc.

http://www.shrapnelcommunity.com/thr...view_large.jpg

Anything I should improve? Anything you don't like? I'm serious here, I'm going to study drawing/animation and I have to get used to being bashed.

Re: Djinnibad - Nomads and Genies
 

Endo: I think you should use the bottom left one as the standard sprite and top right when attacking, personally. I don't go in for that much movement in the attack sprite because it doesn't actually show up much in the game,.. though ideally I'd do something like what you've done above.

Aezeal: Skaven does have a lot of content. Probably no more than say,.. Patala though. I don't think their recruit screen wraps round onto a second line, unlike some basegame nations. Basegame nations vary a lot though - compare Lanka or MA Tienchi with Vanheim for instance.

Re: Djinnibad - Nomads and Genies
 

Reminds me a bit of Prince of Persia games. So I suppose in that regards, nice job.

Bottom left and top right seem best.

As for troop variety and selection, some nations feel like right with fewer trooptypes, and some with more.

By the way, I'm looking forward to this mod eagerly.

Re: Djinnibad - Nomads and Genies
 

Endo your sprites, you can say what they should become.

I'll use the 2 Sombre liked best as the base unit sprites now.
I agree the commander should have a jewel or feather in the turban (I did that with my efriti) and I can't wait till you make it and the others http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif

Re: Djinnibad - Nomads and Genies
 

Also, be sure to space the sprites so the attack animation is not centered, but farther forward, to give the effect of movement.

Re: Djinnibad - Nomads and Genies
 

The guys leap forward and back off quickly, as unarmoured agile combatants should.

Thanks for all the comments. I might touch the turban a bit, so that it's easier to tell when turban ends and a nomad starts when there's lots of them. I might also lighten the blade a bit.

So... I think I'll continue with the humans, at least for now.

I really like the wielder of two swords in your original post, aezeal. Is that the Dervish, assassin/hashashin or something else?

Humans:
Nomad warrior (scimitar)
Nomad horse warrior (light cavalry, scimitar)
Nomad horse archer (ligth cavalry, short bow)
Nomad camel rider (medium cavalry; scimitar)
Whirling dervish warrior (2 attacks)
Whirling dervish rider
Nomad scout; mounted scout, map move 3,
Nomad Sheik; commander

Of these: horse-riders are easy. My avatar is a Horse Brother sans horse, and it's much easier the other way round.

Should camel riders have visible armor, or is that under their robes? Other than that, I expect I'll have lots of trouble with the camel.

What weapons do mounted Dervishes use? Two scimitars?

Should the mounted scout have special look? I could try to do some sort of cloth-covered face without turban, or I could give him darker color scheme (probably similar to dervishes).

Should Sheik be mounted? Horse or camel? It'd be easy to do non-mounted nomad commander, but it should be just as easy to do mounted one once I get the respective unit sprites done.

The human Wazir you found already.

Re: Djinnibad - Nomads and Genies
 

The wielder of 2 swords would be the dervish and their mounted version might best have 2 scimitars too, maybe a spear (does that get a sort of lance bonus but lower?)

on the rest of the questions: do what you feel is best, you are the artist http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif

and don't forget a nomad on a flying carpet, eitehr as infantry or as scout, I'll use it http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif

the sheik might be best as a mounted character on a horse.

Re: Djinnibad - Nomads and Genies
 

#newmonster 2806
#spr1 "Nomads and genies/2806_Nomad_Wazir_1.tga"
#spr2 "Nomads and genies/2806_Nomad_Wazir_2.tga"
#name "Nomad Wazir"
#descr "The Wazir are the advisers and magicians of the nomad sheiks. They mostly divine their wise advices from the stars but also have knowledge in other paths which they learned from their genie overlords."
#hp 10
#size 2
#ressize 2
#prot 0
#mor 12
#mr 14
#enc 3
#str 10
#att 9
#def 9
#prec 10
#mapmove 2
#ap 10
#gcost 100
#rcost 1
#armor "Desert Garb"
#weapon 7 -- Quarterstaff
#poorleader
#nomagicleader
#noundeadleader
#itemslots 15494 -- two hands, one head, one body, one feet, two misc
#magicskill 4 2
#custommagic 9600 50
#fireres 20
#wastesurvival
#end
#end



#addreccom 2806


why does it show up as a trooper and not as commander?

Re: Djinnibad - Nomads and Genies
 

#newmonster 2806
#spr1 "Nomads and genies/2806_Nomad_Wazir_1.tga"
#spr2 "Nomads and genies/2806_Nomad_Wazir_2.tga"
#name "Nomad Wazir"
#descr "The Wazir are the advisers and magicians of the nomad sheiks. They mostly divine their wise advices from the stars but also have knowledge in other paths which they learned from their genie overlords."
#hp 10
#size 2
#ressize 2
#prot 0
#mor 12
#mr 14
#enc 3
#str 10
#att 9
#def 9
#prec 10
#mapmove 2
#ap 10
#gcost 100
#rcost 1
#armor "Desert Garb"
#weapon 7 -- Quarterstaff
#poorleader
#nomagicleader
#noundeadleader
#itemslots 15494 -- two hands, one head, one body, one feet, two misc
#magicskill 4 2
#custommagic 9600 50
#fireres 20
#wastesurvival
#end
#end



#addreccom 2806


why does it show up as a trooper and not as commander?

Re: Djinnibad - Nomads and Genies
 

To Aezeal:
Yes, as I've said previously I'm partial to early Islamic conquests. And they WERE deeply religious! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif Of course, there should be only one Khalif a time, however, but I don't know how to make it so (like special Prophets of some nations?); also, somewhat later Cordoba rulers iirc also proclaimed themselves Khalifs while secular power of Khalifs waned to be replaced with military commanders & secular rulers, such as later Sultans.
And I didn't even include Kurds! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...es/biggrin.gif Probably I will remove Deilemites as well, particularly as I'm not sure how to better represent them. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif
Probably yes, as cap only. We'll need to see how this will play out... And probably add to summons some that calls several genie warriors at once?
Also, I've found in Shah-name a fine event - a daw in onagre's shape who ravaged provinces & lured into traps heroes who tried to capture it! This should probably be a sending spell, either similar to existing Boar or of assassination type... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif
Well, Machaka has some specialized priests with different non-magical abilities. Level 4 priests are read as "Priests: strong" in nation descriptions http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif, though I agree they are rare. Will need to think it up, particularly from the point of view of the balancedness of the whole faction... Possibly Kadi will have to become lesser priest than Imam, though...
Well, they will, I hope, have different niche uses.. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif LA will include more infantry & probably no faris (they still wouldn't get real heavy lancers, though).
Well, YOU were against them in MA! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...es/biggrin.gif Also, they are probably most thematic for elemental mages. Pekhlevan will certainly ride noble "elephant-like" steeds, and combat-oriented genie nobles will have magical steeds of their own. As for Scout on flying carpet - we'll see how it will look from the balance point of view also. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif
Well, as was already said there are some factions with lots of troops types (early Ermor/later Pythium comes to mind, as well as MA Ulm...). And it's not as we gonna to force players to use all of them! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...es/biggrin.gif As for Warhammer factions - all their troops aren't often used in tabletop games, too, but in particular circumstances they may shine. And we here can use MORE options to make them different & have various uses then WH players can, especially as they can have uses beyond battlefield per se. I see no problem in this (unless Endoperez will tire from making sprites, that is http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif ).
Quite possibly. I don't remember their authentic name. In Persia they were called Mobed & were different from Wazir. No big deal in any case, we can change this anytime.
Well, we can even call up bracers as such... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif It probably would work but needs to be tried. And if we'll call up "Robes of Sorceress", it should give it's protection without other item's powers. Another probability is to appropriate Skull Neclace. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif Current modding manual doesn't include probability for making Miscellanous armor, but I don't know whether such attempt will work or not. But good old things most probably would.
NO! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/rant.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif I mean that it certainly shouldn't - that's the whole point of it. But to keep balance it most probably should give worse Prot than furs, which are, after all, quite bulky. 7 would be too good without penalties & not thematic with them.
As for commander read as trooper - I don't see. Probably some misprint, try to use Find for whether this number appears another time.
To Endoperez:
Nomad sprites - I better like the lower pair but variant with attack sprite from higher one is also fine.
The sheikh should be mounted, precisely!
Mounted scout should get greyish garb & yes, covered face would be nice touch.
On wielder of 2 scimitars - there should be also version without long robes, for future Corsair! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif
Camel riders shouldn't have visible armor, they are either mostly caravaneers who have some weapons for self-defense or lighter troops (I'll try to find out whether there were heavier troops on camels, but for now it seems the fantasy of Medieval2's authors...).
And thank you again. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Re: Djinnibad - Nomads and Genies
 

no more 2806 found.. I'm pretty sure I must be missing some vital line that makes that troop a commander... no clue what though

Re: Djinnibad - Nomads and Genies
 

IIRC it should be just addreccom line. At least in my Bogarus splitting this worked OK. Are you using any other mods at the time? They may theoretically include the same number...

Re: Djinnibad - Nomads and Genies
 

Uh,.. what basegame level 4 priests are you referring to?

Strong priests means holy 3 priests are recruitable.

Re: Djinnibad - Nomads and Genies
 

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif thought so

on the wazir.. no other mods with new nations I just don't get it.

Can anyone else read back to last page and see what is wrong with my Nomad Wazir?
--> I don't know what changed but now the wazir is where he is supposed to be.. all is well.

The nation is getting a long nicely still need more troops but endo does great work on the nomads

Re: Djinnibad - Nomads and Genies
 

Yeah, got confused by Dom2 reminisciences... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...es/redface.gif
So now we get 2 priest variants w/ Holy 3 in MA... Maybe make Khalif a multyhero?
As for Wazir confusion - I had self-correcting error too, though of different kind... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

Re: Djinnibad - Nomads and Genies
 

I'd just keep the kalif but remove the other

bump - MA version 0.11
 

There are probably some bugs in it. And I didn't finish nation itself. So just count it as bump for now... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif
For now I have several ideas on magic sites in capital:
City of Xanadu itself;
Grand Bazaar (provides gold, among other things);
Palace of Air & Fire to recruit genies as Aezeal offered;
Temple of the Stone (read: Kaaba);
Mountain of the Eagle's Nest (read: Alamut).
Of course, this is too much & also I don't want too much commanders to be capital-only. Any thoughts on this?
To Aezeal: Current version quite possibly duplicates some unit numbers with your early era. As I want this to be at the end a single mod with all 3 eras included I'd like to know which monster numbers you're going to use up (the same goes for weapons, etc.) to reserve them in future versions.

Re: bump - MA version 0.11
 

lol no idea which numbers I will use

DL the mod as it is now and just stay like 10 higher in each?

Re: bump - MA version 0.11
 

#newweapon 802
#name "Pekhlevan's Mace"
#dmg 12
#att 2
#def 1
#len 2
#rcost 10
#armorpiercing
#magic
#aoe 2
#sound 11
#end

ehm AP AOE 2 damage... for a recruitable... nonono... that is a 10-15 gem magic item you are giving away for free, high damage too.

As said instead of sorcerors I'd just use the marid and efriti

adn the turbaned helm seems to have to high protection

Re: bump - MA version 0.11
 

As I've seen, you've used numbers 20 & 21 for Pretenders (though there was about 15 numbers between these & highest previous number). So, next version I'd probably redo monster numbers to start from 30-31, eh? BTW, I made nation number +1, planning +2 for LA.

Re: bump - MA version 0.11
 

hmm btw I think you are already doign to much in this nation.. maybe spread some of this out over LA too?

I'd try to find some special things and keep em (flying carpet pplz, Roc's, efriti).. I mean the nation must bring something new.. and a nation with a lot medium infantry and cavalry ... is not so special..

Re: bump - MA version 0.11
 

You could say I just got tired of magic items doing nothing.. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif It's not exactly free as unit itself costs money & upkeep. Probably it should cost more - I didn't exactly finished this as you see. What weapon such unit should have in your opinion, BTW? As I've said these guys were very well armed & I don't exactly know how to translate this into Dominions terms. What I don't wan to see in them is some double-blade variant (or, God forbid, double morningstars of Abyssian sacred! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/mad.gif). Also, as they didn't have heavy lances of later European knights nor saddles for such, I don't want lance to be included as is (and light lance is currently not 1-strike weapon). The minimum thet they should have is something like "Iron Cudgel" of Bandar in one hand... and something like this HAS area effect! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...es/biggrin.gif
No, in MA human sorcerers should be the rule, with mariti & efreets as summons. I just don't know currently how to better organize such sorcerers. What I'm almost sure of is that stargazers (I'll find proper name for them, it was somewhere! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif ) should be different from elementalists. There were also phylosophers such as Ibn-Sinna (who, btw, is probably going to be another national hero http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif ), but I don't know at the moment whether it would be too much or not. And I don't know what paths they would have if present...
It's Iron Cup +1 ! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...ies/tongue.gif Including resources, etc. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...es/biggrin.gif
Some of this would be in LA, too. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif And it's far easier to drop something than to do it. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...es/biggrin.gif For now I like what I have, but after some reflection (& trial games) something would probably be dropped. Mamluk infantry, maybe - I'm not sure about their actual appearance & their usability in MA as well...
Well, Rocs & genie will remain as summons in any case. But I don't see Rocs as recruited monsters in MA.. Machaka, you say? But it's different case with their African mythos while medieval Arab/Persian faction should be a civilized nation whose strength lies in normal troops, human mages, fanatical holy warriors AND ONLY AFTER THAT - unique summons. I agree that in MA they may have lesser genies as capital-only recruitables... Also, some genies, at least, may become better armed (did you include genie cavalry in early era, btw?).
As for special - did you notice Nomads militia recruited for 1 fight only? The ability to quickly amass good troops in emergency is special enough for me. And ghazi are certainly not Vans, but with proper blessing can give good account of themselves as I see.
And if you have ideas other than retaining genies as mainstay troops in MA - then I'm open for them. I thought on replacing camels riders with some reptiles, for example, but am not sure this would be good idea...
What of summons? As I see it, they should be roughly based on what magic genie in question possesses. So Efreet should be Air/Fire summons, Marid Air/Astral... Daw/Shaitan should probably be Death or Blood summons. Peri - probably Astral/Fire or just Fire. Ghul will be summoned by Death spell, of course. Sola - just Fire? Jahn - just Air or Astral? Djinn as such is present in the game (I'm not sure we should this unique being as guidance, but if we include it, he should probably be summoned by Air/Fire spell).. and as I'd said we can make lesser ones. I'll also look into what other characteristic spells could be (castle-in-one-night is already included, though currently have not full stats).

Re: bump - MA version 0.11
 

If you have aoe2 on a weapon remember it can hit the unit using it. Or it could just kill 6 enemies in one swing.

That weapon looks crazy to me, but I didn't look at the unit carrying it.

Re: bump - MA version 0.11
 

I remember it. I even used something similar for Night Goblin Fanatics in my project of a Warhammer mod.. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif
And in case of Pekhlevans - there is exactly one case in Shah-name where young knight had hit his own horse & was subsequently taken alive... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...es/biggrin.gif
BTW, it alco contains 2 cases of knightly heroes who also performed their own astrological calculations, one of these being father of Rustam, the main hero of the epic... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

Re: bump - MA version 0.11
 

http://www.shrapnelcommunity.com/thr...ds_preview.jpg


I've done first version of the dervish, and have looked around at sword-wielding cavalry. I'll probably model the pose after Tien Chi/Jomon cavalry leaders holding sword up. I'm not sure if I'll draw the sword myself or edit something like EA C'tis lizard chariots' huge falchion.

I still don't have any ideas about drawing Dervish cavalry with two swords. Would it be possible to give some less-used cavalry lances or light lances? Dervish cavalry with lance/sword/hoof would still work well as shock troops. I'd also like to give the mounted scouts a light lance.

I'm much more confident about the camel problem now that I realized I can model it after 'wasteland survival' symbol.

Re: bump - MA version 0.11
 

No, in MA human sorcerers should be the rule, with mariti & efreets as summons. AND Well, Rocs & genie will remain as summons in any case. But I don't see Rocs as recruited monsters in MA.. Machaka, you say? But it's different case with their African mythos while medieval Arab/Persian faction should be a civilized nation whose strength lies in normal troops, human mages, fanatical holy warriors AND ONLY AFTER THAT - unique summons.--> I would do that for late age

In MA I would jsut fade the most powerfull out and keep the weaker ones instead of the sorcs. Then In LA they all become summons

basicly I think all your MA nation should be LA..

Re: bump - MA version 0.11
 

No, LA nation should be based on Turkish Empire - you know, Janissaries, etc. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif Also, assassins will become non-sacreds. They will most probably get banners too.
As for sorcerers of MA & LA - I'm not sure for now, but I think that we should have SOME kind of strong (read: fireball-flinging) sorcerers in that faction. While at LA they should probably be weaker & with less flamboyant effects...
BTW, what do you see in MA faction except weaker clone of EA?

Re: bump - MA version 0.11
 

MA more magic, less armour, less priest power

and thus more genies

LA no genies, more priests, more and better armed infantry and cavalry

Re: bump - MA version 0.11
 

MORE genies in MA??? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/mad.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif I thought it was EA that's genie -based...
Also, Turkish-based LA should probably get less priests, but, yes, better armed & armored troops. Think regular troops instead of religiously-driven militia (highly-trained militia, though).
Another thing - from memoires of Ousama ibn Mounkidh I see that ismailites (hashishiin) mostly used daggers, though they used swords, too. Probably should get sword&(poison)dagger so.
And I will probably move Corsairs into late era.
Probably LA magic should also include Death/Blood?
Another question to all interested - medieval Persian army often included elephants and sometimes nafta throwers. Should they be used (and in what era)?

Re: bump - MA version 0.11
 

I meant more than in LA

ENDO, I somehow missed your pics last time I looked, those dervish are GREAT!! YOu ahve a good feel for this nation http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif

Re: bump - MA version 0.11
 

Well, that I thought obvious. And in any case I asked how you would define MA in relation to EA (and said that "the same in less concentration" wouldn't be cool). http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif
On pics - yeah, fine. Except for left-handed scimitar in attack position which seems somewhat wrong for me. Could you do something with it, Camrade, please? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

Re: bump - MA version 0.11
 

I tried foreshortening it more, but it's hard with such tiny sprites. I think I'll change the legs' position in the attack sprite instead, so that the left knee points more back in the attack pose. Well, not straigth back, but more so than it currently does.

Re: bump - MA version 0.11
 

Possibly either make left arm less straight or somewhat change position? E.g., make it on "hanging guard" - along the body? Or make "trace" from previous movement - this would probably look stylish on 2-scimitar wielder?

Re: bump - MA version 0.11
 

I don't expect to be able to make something totally different from all the other sprites "stylish". It'd stand out, and that wouldn't be good.

I tried few variations with the arm and the blade, including the direction of the blade. The result there is the best I got. I tried to make it seem that the left sword is past the actual swing, but I couldn't do proper foreshortening so it ended up looking less like what I wanted.