Re: creating a new, fictional oob
 

Some thoughts about posleeen.
Grunts - Extermely high morale, very low experience, weapons with extremely low accuracy but uber RoF.

Squad leaders - Extremely High Accuracy, Very High Morale and exp. Tenars (or what their vehicles were called)should be armed with SAMs with very high range and accuracy, and equivalent of US 120 mm cannon (simulting plasma weapons)for ground work. They should have armor of 1 (50.cal snipers were able to destroy them) have superior stabilisation and fcs ratings.

For tenars and posleen flying tanks, you are using helicopters class, right?

Anyway, are you thinking about modelling earth's Mobile Infantry too? I think that each MI trooper should be modelled as independent unit, like light tank or something http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif. Platoon of MI wold be company type unit in game terms.


And last thing - i don't think posleen normal shotgun would be similar to humans. I'd say it would have much more power.

Re: creating a new, fictional oob
 

I don't know anything about the setting you want to model in this OOB, but the "swarm" organization you describe made me think of something that was discussed to figure radar-centralized SAM batteries.

If you want a pack of units centralized around an all-powerful leader, create a large platoon-level formation with eleven "squads" led by one specific unit as you described.
The squads should have maximum manpower, a negative morale modifier and no radio. In this case, they will have to stick around the leading unit to gain command access, and there are great chances that they will rout once the leader is destroyed.
Also, don't forget to put the leading unit in a different unit class, so an IA pick will not mix both types.

About anti-air weapons: are these vehicle-based or not? If yes, you could use a class 4 weapon (AA gun/MG) with a weapon size of 4 or more. These will be the most efficient against both air and ground targets, but IIRC the weapon size will drain more ROF and leave less firing chances per turn. Add a deliriously high accuracy rating and a large positive unit experience modifier, and you should have a deadly enough weapon.
Also, fiddle with the warhead size and HE kill ratings to adjust the damage and animation to your liking.

Lastly, if you want this weapon to be efficient against armour, my take would be to give it a large HE penetration, thus sparing superfluous AP shots. This method tends to work too well for real-life weapons (makes them too efficient against armour), but since we're talking plasma guns...
And if it's an AA-oriented weapon, the large ROF burst fires could even account for the occasional collateral plastering you would get against multiple armored units stacked in the same hex! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

Re: creating a new, fictional oob
 

now i am just working on the tenars, but i'm not sure, if i'll give some units plasma guns and missiles or if i make them an extra unit.
i'll test both variants and will take the one, that works better http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

as soon as the posleen-oob works, i'll give earth galtech-modifications, including the MI, but before that i have got to read the book again.

by know the only modification i have spend the shotguns is a higher range, 4.



that sounds great!

that sounds great, too! do you maybe know i way, to model the plasma guns in a way, that their efficiency gets smaller with higher range to simulate the volatility (right word??) of plasma

Re: creating a new, fictional oob
 

The only way I know of that would allow to figure that effect would be by using the AP ammo type only. AFAIK only both AP and Sabot rounds will lose penetration over distance, while HE and HEAT are supposed to have some immoveable warhead in addition to mere kinetic energy.

That would be what forces your weapon to lose efficiency with greater range. The only drawback is that you can't use it against soft targets, including aircrafts.

Re: creating a new, fictional oob
 

Wonder what became of Zocktan; he seemed to have a better grasp of what he was doing than I.

I'm trying to create Posleen o'olts as well. I don't think superheavy weapons like the SheVas or Lampreys can really be modeled in game and even mobile infantry are iffy, but that's okay with me as I have other intentions for what I'm doing. Still tweaking them, trying to make them slightly less invincible.

By my estimate, there was about a trillion Posleen sent to Earth in the novels, not including those born here but including those who died in orbit. They outnumbered us 166 to 1, and that's very hard to portray in the game; indeed, I would need to have an entire o'olt cost about 2.5 points to do it. Right now a single "section" of Posleen normals consists of 50 creatures and costs 2 points, as does a single godking/tenar. So they tend to outnumber a mid-level 2004 rifle company (437 points) by about 66 to 1. A single marksman costs 6 points. He's outnumbered 101 to 1. Point I'm trying to make is, they're already underrepresented and they're still almost unbeatable.

I'm using hovercraft to represent Godking tenars, and horse cavalry to represent Posleen. I'm also using ammo crates carried as passengers for their volatile power sources. Godkings can't dismount yet and I'm not sure I'll let them. I'll post specifics on weapons tomorrow.

Re: creating a new, fictional oob
 

I think your proportions are a little off. Remember that points are supposed to represent the combat effectiveness of a unit, and the whole point of the books is that earth units were _always_ outmatched. In fact, the only things that would usually stop the Posleen (other than MI or other galtech) was trapping them in a firesack and pounding them with ridiculous amounts of artillery (well, that, nukes, and booby traps). The Posleen should always be met in either a defense against them or maybe a meeting engagement (and if it's a meeting engagement, earth forces would usually get eaten alive).

So essentially, without galtech, fortified positions, and/or nukes, the Posleen, by the book, are pretty much unbeatable, and were designed that way. Thus, I don't think using the book force numbers are a good idea to figure out the point value of the units. If you want to represent how outnumbered earth forces are, I think scenarios would be the way to go, and ignore the point costs.

Re: creating a new, fictional oob
 

Swarms and swarms of "cheap" infantry with a few REALLY good weapons (on the Tenars) vs a dug-in (or VERY soon to be dead) defensive position hoping their ammo holds out and every mortar/artillery piece in range isn't otherwise occupied.
Might be interesting for a scenario or two but I'm not sure it would hold anyone's interest for long.
Well, the AI's usual Banzai tactics are appropriate for Posleen.

Re: creating a new, fictional oob
 

Try the Glosters at the Imjin River scenario a couple of times - should do for the flavour of the books without any need for any fiddling about.

I can't see any 'fun' element in the adaptation - no tactics, merely a sheer horrendous unrelenting knock-down grind. WW1 style trench warfare defence really. There is a reason there are not many WW1 trench warfare games (computer or tabletop) about. This would be WW1 on steroids.

The books seem to rely on WMD to have any real effect on the aliens - and WMD are not modelled.

Andy

Re: creating a new, fictional oob
 

Yes. I know that points usually represent effectiveness rather than actual cost, and I also know why the developers chose to do that (because if gamers tried playing the Iraqis or North Koreans and found that they were hopelessly outgunned *and* outnumbered, they would complain even more than they already do). But if the Posleen had to fight man to man, I think I just might start seeing the opposite problem.

I really need to start making more use of the latter. Tenar don't seem to set off landmines, but I bet a fougasse would do quick work of them.
EVERY battle I've played against them so far has been a defense except for one (meeting engagement, Meekong Delta, 1971; satchel charges are fun but charlie only has so many). Trying to take territory against them as they are now would be foolish at best.
For what it's worth, I did pull a near-win against them. Playing the Swiss. In the Alps. In December. In extreme low-visibility conditions. :o

I would have won had my artillery not run out of ammunition. I almost never buy ammo containers when playing against the AI, but I now see that I'm going to have to change that. This endeavor is also teaching me the value of landmines and demolitions (seldom used them in the past, will do so more often at least against aliens). I'm going to be tinkering more with both the Posleen and my own tactics, but I don't think it would be too hard to raise my victory rate up to about 15% or so (from its current level of about 1.5%).
Played it. Liked it. Destined to Defeat is another nice one.
You can't see any fun in it because you've designed a game called Steel Panthers (not Meaty Cannon Fodder)... and perhaps because you ain't crazy.

I tend to prefer the infantry side of ground warfare, and I have a very strange sense of fun. It's usually me who's throwing hordes of infantry at a technologically-superior foe, rather than the AI. Sometimes I even take the role of alien scum and let the AI play the puny earthlings. When I get the kinks worked out, I might give that role to some of my more sporting/masochistic family members (spending a large portion of one's developmental years in the presence of Firestorm= potentially unhealthy?).

Re: creating a new, fictional oob
 

Well, part of the problem as well is that the way the Posleen function is "alien" to the way the SP engine is designed. For example, tenars should really have TSI/GSR level sensors, which would mean that they probably should have done better in your Alpine scenario. Also, there's no real way to model the way that the normals would just pour ridiculous amounts of fire in the general direction of incoming fire. This was one of the big things, after all; unless a sniper got his shot lost in the "noise" of a lot of outgoing fire, the second he took his shot, he'd get plastered by hundreds of weapons plastering his position. Basically, there's no real provision currently for the way Posleen would blind-fire at anything that looked remotely like a threat.

There was a comment about another scenario that might be up your alley as well, I think it was a defense against the North Vietnamese where all the snipers had to just keep firing and couldn't move, simply because of the incoming hordes.

Edit - Sorry, it was the USMC vs NKorea, in fact, almost the very first scenario: 001, Obong-Ni Ridge.